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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Any Brother who says he is without Sin is a What?

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iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

Has anyone here actually listened to any Paul Washer?


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/3/16 11:09Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

I have.


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Josh Parsley

 2007/3/16 11:43Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
I have needed to stop that and just abide in Him where my strength is and stop trying to boast in the calendar days of victory over some besetting sin.


Robert
At the risk of being even more pedantic than usual... this still puts you at risk of measuring how well you are maintaining your abiding, and consequently vulnerable to your own testimony.

I am not saying that testimony is unimportant, not at all. I just want to make the point that somehow we have to get our eyes off ourselves and onto the Serpent on the pole! This is why I am always reluctant to be get dragged into the 'so what is your testimony' arguments. I think we must, in our understanding at least, separate between the revelation of God and our own experience. As a herald I must preach what God has said, even if the sky falls down. If the greatest believers in every age have a testimony that does not square with the plain statement of the word I must take my side with the word of God.

This is not being unrealistic but just defining the area where I will fight this battle. 'You shall be witnesses to me' was the promise and I don't want to be drawn into being a witness of my own experience or of a theology. I must and will lift up Jesus Christ as an at-point-of-need Saviour. To witness to a will-be Saviour can have little validity; a witness is someone who has already seen something.

My personal experience may be woefully inadequate or I may have had a 'good day' but neither can change the nature of New Covenant salvation. I do think that many personal testimonies to a 'sanctification experience' may be misguided. I don't dispute them but to faith they are irrelevent. Consequently for someone to disprove them is also irrelevent. In this I am 'a man of one book' and that book my Saviour. If he says "go and sin no more" that is enough for me. If his blood cleanses from all sin there must be a point in time when I am 'without sin', but I would never give this testimony; my testimony will always be that the blood of Christ cleanses me from all sin. To testify 'I am without sin' may be true but it is not expedient. However to testify that 'I am sinfully corrupt until the resurrection' cannot be a testimony to the one who saves his people from their sin.

People will always ask 'are you saying you are without sin'? My answer is always the same; He is able, He is faithful, He is sufficient.


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Ron Bailey

 2007/3/16 11:49Profile
vico
Member



Joined: 2005/5/25
Posts: 258


 Re:

Quote:
I have.

me to.

 2007/3/16 12:34Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Hi Ron,

Quote:
At the risk of being even more pedantic than usual... this still puts you at risk of measuring how well you are maintaining your abiding, and consequently vulnerable to your own testimony.



I understand. Sometimes I think I am woefully in need of deliverance from Finneyism. The whole of the message is "look at yourself!" or "Am I measuring up?" or "Can a person possibly be saved and have this or that struggle?" This is how the Gospel was presented to me at an early age. It is almost a no-assurance do-it-yourself salvation. I am always asking myself- "how am I doing?" The real problem with it is that I have been taught since I was small that if I'm having a bad day I will miss the Rapture.

I know I am being a bit vulnerable and candid here, but there are possibly many many people who struggle in this area; especially folk who have an emphasis on repentance and revival. It's the whole 'loose canon' issue. If we don't get this repentance preaching tied down good it will sink our own ship! If it will help someone, so be it.

Quote:
My personal experience may be woefully inadequate or I may have had a 'good day' but neither can change the nature of New Covenant salvation.



I am assuming you mean here that the basis of our salvation is not on what we do- but on what He has done?

thanks,

-Robert


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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/3/16 13:40Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Quote:
My personal experience may be woefully inadequate or I may have had a 'good day' but neither can change the nature of New Covenant salvation.



I am assuming you mean here that the basis of our salvation is not on what we do- but on what He has done?


Yes, that is what I mean. Salvation isn't real because it works; it works because it is real. :-)


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Ron Bailey

 2007/3/16 15:33Profile
HopeinChrist
Member



Joined: 2005/8/8
Posts: 258


 Re:

Quote:
If his blood cleanses from all sin there must be a point in time when I am 'without sin', but I would never give this testimony; my testimony will always be that the blood of Christ cleanses me from all sin. To testify 'I am without sin' may be true but it is not expedient. However to testify that 'I am sinfully corrupt until the resurrection' cannot be a testimony to the one who saves his people from their sin.


Thanks Ron B
That is helpful.

 2007/3/16 17:31Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

It seems in the last 10 posts or so that there has been a bait and switch. Were we not talking about the issue of sin and man who says he has no sin?

We were not talking about the righteousness of Christ but the condition of man.

Why are we so fearful and fragile?

What does Scripture say of our situation in this life?

For what purpose is communion according to Scripture?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/3/16 20:06Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

What is a Paul washer? Is that anything like a Bush basher?

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/3/16 20:48Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
What is a Paul washer? Is that anything like a Bush basher?



Brother, what does this statement have to do with this thread?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/3/16 20:58Profile





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