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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : EVIDENCES OF REGENERATION...

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Joined: 2006/12/20
Posts: 61


There is not a greater heresy and a more dangerous dogma than that true Christians actually live a great majority of their days in sin. Such an opinion is in palpable contradiction of the Bible, and absurd in principle. Many persons seem to have the idea, and this idea is often dropped directly, or indirectly implied from the pulpit, that truly regenerate souls may and do often live mostly in sin; that they live by far the greater part of their time in a backslidden state, so far at least as their heart is concerned; that they seldom or never truly and fully obey God and live up to their duty. Now such representations are not only flatly contrary to the Bible, but they are a greater snare and stumbling block than Universalism or almost any form of heresy that can be named. The fact is, if God is true, and the Bible is true, the truly regenerate soul has overcome the world, the flesh, and Satan, and sin, and is a conqueror and more than a conqueror. He triumphs over temptation as a general thing, and the triumphs of temptation over him are so far between that it is said of him in the living oracles that he does not, can not sin. He is not a sinner but a saint. He is sanctified; a holy person; a child and son of God. If at any time he is overcome, it is only to rise again, and soon return like the weeping prodigal. "The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord, and he delighteth in his way. Though he fall he shall not be utterly cast down: for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand."--Psalms 37:23,24.

The sinner and the deceived professor is the slave of sin. The seventh of Romans is his experience in his best estate. When he has the most hope of himself and others have the most hope of his good estate he goes no farther than to make and break resolutions. His life is but a death in sin. He has not the victory. He sees the right but does it not. Sin is his master to whom he yields himself a servant to obey. He only tries as he says to forsake sin, but does not in fact forsake it in his heart. And yet because he is convicted and has desires and forms resolutions of amendment he hopes he is regenerated. O, what a horrible delusion! Stop short with conviction with the hope that he is already a christian! Alas! How many are already in hell who have stumbled at this stumbling stone!

Charles G. Finney


 2007/3/15 11:14Profile

Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri


Stop short with conviction with the hope that he is already a christian! Alas! How many are already in hell who have stumbled at this stumbling stone!

I think Finney has a point here, as usual, but I think also we need to understand that the basis on which we are accepted with God is not our perfection but the finished work of the cross. Finney's theology inevitably always leads to salvation by sanctification. In such a view there is a constant preoccupation with how well we are doing and if we are or are not measuring up. This destroys joy and stops the working of God in our lives. We start trying to do ourselves what God has to work out in us as we cooperate with His Spirit.

There are things about us that God is working out continually. We stand in the grace of God not in our own perfections. If we get confused in this it will only lead to tremendous fear, stress, and pain. Keeping folk in fear all the time is not a good way of keeping them righteous. People can be overcome by overmuch sorrow as they despair over their sins. They ready themselves to throw in the towel or worse. SO we know the objective is conformity to the image of Christ (not some bizarre- pet-peeve based religious standard) as TRUE holiness; the question is how will God bring this about in us. Because it is Him that worketh in us to will and do His good pleasure. He is the author of our salvation. When we take up the pen- we get into serious problems.

Just wanted to add that as a student of Finney myself.

God Bless,


Robert Wurtz II

 2007/3/15 12:02Profile

Joined: 2007/3/14
Posts: 4


I John 2:4-6, "The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him...Whoever claims to live in him MUST walk as Jesus did."

There MUST be some kind of change in a person who becomes born again, otherwise they are not truly born again. Remember, though, " looks on the outward appearance but God looks on the heart." Sometimes all we see is the outward actions, and who knows what has really happened on the inside. They might be battling addictions or attitudes that we've never even experienced, and we know nothing about how gripping they may be. Yet, with a true change of heart, outward actions eventually will change.

The question may really be, "Are we really saved by grace?", or, "Are we really saved by grace and....?"


 2007/3/15 15:32Profile

Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re: God has to work out in us as we cooperate with His Spirit.

I agree with You Robert

God all-powerful, God ever present, God all knowing, reconciled me to Himself by making atonement for my sins and as Christ died He declared the atonement finished all I had to do was believe Him by faith and repent and I to died and was separated from my mothers womb and
begotten again with a new spirit of love and charity and a new family and a loving Father and a Savior who knows me and is the author and finisher of my salvation. I sin sometimes but sin is no longer king or lord of my life and each time I fail I pick myself up and ask God to forgive me and he chastises me and I grow stronger and thank God He loves me as His Son and I am no longer His enemy. Salvation is redemption made effectual to the individual by the power of the Holy Spirit. Eddie


 2007/3/15 15:33Profile

Joined: 2007/3/14
Posts: 50


Do people who break the speed limit by habit or choice have the right to say thet are saved?

 2007/3/15 16:05Profile

Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


Eph 5:

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish

Those who are part of the church, are sanctified by His washing us with the water of His word.

Do you see Him doing this in your life?

In Christ

Jeff Marshalek

 2007/3/15 19:35Profile

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