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beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Quote:
Pauls says that when Christ died, he put to death the flesh, and all of the works of the flesh. We know that the flesh cannot be subject to God because it is wicked completely.



Where does Paul say this?

In Christ,
Blake


_________________
Blake Kidney

 2007/4/14 16:12Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

With Strong's numbers:

Jhn 5:21 For 1063 as 5618 the Father 3962 raiseth up 1453 the dead 3498, and 2532 quickeneth 2227 [them]; even 2532 so 3779 the Son 5207 quickeneth 2227 whom 3739 he will 2309 .

Jhn 6:63 It is 2076 the spirit 4151 that quickeneth 2227 ; the flesh 4561 3756 profiteth 5623 nothing 3762: the words 4487 that 3739 I 1473 speak 2980 unto you 5213, [they] are 2076 spirit 4151, and 2532 [they] are 2076 life 2222.

Rom 4:17 (As 2531 it is written 1125 , 3754 I have made 5087 thee 4571 a father 3962 of many 4183 nations 1484,) before 2713 him whom 3739 he believed 4100 , [even] God 2316, who quickeneth 2227 the dead 3498, and 2532 calleth 2564 those things which be 5607 not 3361 as though 5613 they were 5607 .

Rom 8:11 But 1161 if 1487 the Spirit 4151 of him that raised up 1453 Jesus 2424 from 1537 the dead 3498 dwell 3611 in 1722 you 5213, he that raised up 1453 Christ 5547 from 1537 the dead 3498 shall 2227 0 also 2532 quicken 2227 your 5216 mortal 2349 bodies 4983 by 1223 his 846 Spirit 4151 that dwelleth 1774 1774 in 1722 you 5213.

1Cr 15:22 For 1063 as 5618 in 1722 Adam 76 all 3956 die 599 , even 2532 so 3779 in 1722 Christ 5547 shall 2227 0 all 3956 be made alive 2227 .

1Cr 15:36 [Thou] fool 878, that which 3739 thou 4771 sowest 4687 is 2227 0 not 3756 quickened 2227 , except 3362 it die 599 :

1Cr 15:45 And 2532 so 3779 it is written 1125 , The first 4413 man 444 Adam 76 was made 1096 1519 a living 2198 soul 5590; the last 2078 Adam 76 [was made] 1519 a quickening 2227 spirit 4151.

2Cr 3:6 Who 3739 also 2532 hath made 2427 0 us 2248 able 2427 ministers 1249 of the new 2537 testament 1242; not 3756 of the letter 1121, but 235 of the spirit 4151: for 1063 the letter 1121 killeth 615 , but 1161 the spirit 4151 giveth life 2227 .

Gal 3:21 [Is] the law 3551 then 3767 against 2596 the promises 1860 of God 2316? God forbid 3361 1096 : for 1063 if 1487 there had been 1325 0 a law 3551 given 1325 which 3588 could 1410 have given life 2227 , verily 3689 righteousness 1343 should 302 have been 2258 by 1537 the law 3551.

1Ti 6:13 I give 3853 0 thee 4671 charge 3853 in the sight 1799 of God 2316, who 3588 quickeneth 2227 all things 3956, and 2532 [before] Christ 5547 Jesus 2424, who 3588 before 1909 Pontius 4194 Pilate 4091 witnessed 3140 a good 2570 confession 3671;

1Pe 3:18 For 3754 Christ 5547 also 2532 hath once 530 suffered 3958 for 4012 sins 266, the just 1342 for 5228 the unjust 94, that 2443 he might bring 4317 us 2248 to God 2316, being put to death 2289 3303 in the flesh 4561, but 1161 quickened 2227 by the Spirit 4151:

Adam's soul, Satan's spirit = death.
Adam's soul, Christ's Spirit = Life

Adam a living soul, Christ a quickening Spirit.

All those that live, living souls and satan's spirit. All those that believe, living souls and Christ's quickening Spirit unto eternal life in Christ Jesus. The flesh is even quickened to contain this Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit and God the Father Himself by the Seed (Sperma) of God, Jesus Christ. For we are now the "Temple of the Holy Spirit. When it is planted in the ground it will bring forth fruit, that a new body like Jesus Christ.

Flesh and bone, not blood, the new life of the flesh is from the Tree of Life, Jesus Christ.

In Christ: Phillip




_________________
Phillip

 2007/4/14 21:26Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
This man could not do it either. Christ is the only One that did it and it is by His life that we can do it after rebirth unto a new creature.



This is not the focus of what is being discussed here. We are seeking to understand that the law is spiritual. Do you agree with Paul?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/4/15 13:30Profile
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Repentence

Do none of you ever feel the Holy Spirit correcting you, and apologize, and then ask for help to do better?

Is this not repentence?

The Holy Spirit, the last time I looked, was still God!

Blessings,

Forrest


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/4/16 0:12Profile
BenWilliams
Member



Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas

 Re:

Webrev Wrote:

Quote:
Ben, when the Holy Spirit convicts me of sin, I always do apologize to God, and ask for help to go the right way. This leaves me feeling clean, but my question was really not for me, but for my newly saved father, a babe in Christ at 82, Praise God!



Hey Forrest, first I want to say that I don't believe everything I stated in my dissertation to be 100% accurate, I haven't studied this stuff for near as long as other people, and I'm sure that I have stated some things that may be a little off.

Secondly, as this is a topic of much disagreement, it is a very difficult one, and is in direct opposistion to what most churches out there teach. Every time it is brought up it receives much criticism. But nevertheless, I press on because I believe it to be true, no one can offer arguments so far that hold enough water for me to reconsider.
--------------------------------------------------

That said, we must discuss the difference between the spirit and the flesh, and also of conviction from the Holy Spirit.

The first thing about all of this that we must understand is that the flesh is an abomination to God, it cannot dwell in his presence, it is completely and utterly hated by God.

So God had to judge the flesh because it was unrighteous, and abominable. When He judged it, He put it to death, and all of the works that it had, is, and will produce.

Now, based off of what Paul writes, I believe he makes a clear distinction that the spirit is righteous, and the flesh is wicked.

If the flesh is totally wicked, and the spirit is totally righteous, if one of them dies, then the one remaining is the only one alive.

So if Christ put to death the flesh and all it's works, then the only thing remaining in a believer is the spirit, which is righteous.
--------------------------------------------------

I'm sorry Forrest, something came up, and I have to go, but I will come back and finish discussing this, I want to finish the second half of what I am writing, about the Holy Spirit, and conviction, and all that stuff.


_________________
Benjamin Williams

 2007/4/16 16:12Profile









 Re: Advice on a verse


Hi Ben

Quote:
The first thing about all of this that we must understand is that the flesh is an abomination to God, it cannot dwell in his presence, it is completely and utterly hated by God.

So God had to judge the flesh because it was unrighteous, and abominable. When He judged it, He put it to death, and all of the works that it had, is, and will produce.

Now, based off of what Paul writes, I believe he makes a clear distinction that the spirit is righteous, and the flesh is wicked.

If the flesh is totally wicked, and the spirit is totally righteous, if one of them dies, then the one remaining is the only one alive.

So if Christ put to death the flesh and all it's works, then the only thing remaining in a believer is the spirit, which is righteous...

I know that UWR is very able to reply for herself, but I want to stop you right there, because this is an extrapolation of what the Bible [i]does[/i] say.

PLEASE (yes, I'm raising my voice just slightly) remember that God created man in His image, and He gave us fleshly bodies for a reason. Think about it. And HE chose that a Man should become the total solution to what had gone wrong in the flesh - which was spiritual..... sin ..... not the flesh itself.

It was 'our old man' who was put to death, not the flesh. I think you need to read most of Romans more carefully, to see that it is book about the [u]heart attitudes[/u] which dictate the actions we find ourselves (that is, our bodies) doing [u]or[/u] [i]not[/i] doing.

Also, as we seek the help of the Holy Spirit to quench those desires and actions which do not please God, our bodies begin to be able please Him.

Romans 6
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members [i]as[/i] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [i]as[/i] instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin [u]shall not have dominion over you[/u]:

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Romans 8
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after [or, are given to] the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

 2007/4/16 16:30
BenWilliams
Member



Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas

 Re:

Sorry I haven't gotten back to you on the rest of that post webrev, I have been pretty busy, I intend to get back to you on it still. But it may be a few days.


_________________
Benjamin Williams

 2007/4/19 16:32Profile
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Repentence

Quote:

dorcas wrote:

Hi Ben
Quote:
The first thing about all of this that we must understand is that the flesh is an abomination to God, it cannot dwell in his presence, it is completely and utterly hated by God.

So God had to judge the flesh because it was unrighteous, and abominable. When He judged it, He put it to death, and all of the works that it had, is, and will produce.

Now, based off of what Paul writes, I believe he makes a clear distinction that the spirit is righteous, and the flesh is wicked.

If the flesh is totally wicked, and the spirit is totally righteous, if one of them dies, then the one remaining is the only one alive.

So if Christ put to death the flesh and all it's works, then the only thing remaining in a believer is the spirit, which is righteous...

I know that UWR is very able to reply for herself, but I want to stop you right there, because this is an extrapolation of what the Bible [i]does[/i] say.

PLEASE (yes, I'm raising my voice just slightly) remember that God created man in His image, and He gave us fleshly bodies for a reason. Think about it. And HE chose that a Man should become the total solution to what had gone wrong in the flesh - which was spiritual..... sin ..... not the flesh itself.

It was 'our old man' who was put to death, not the flesh. I think you need to read most of Romans more carefully, to see that it is book about the [u]heart attitudes[/u] which dictate the actions we find ourselves (that is, our bodies) doing [u]or[/u] [i]not[/i] doing.

Also, as we seek the help of the Holy Spirit to quench those desires and actions which do not please God, our bodies begin to be able please Him.

Romans 6:
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.



Ben,

I'm always able to wait for a considered answer.

Dorcas,

Thank you!

You touched on exactly what I was pointing to, that repentence is an 180 degree turn away from sin, and toward righteousness, and that the Holy Spirit is continually leading us toward that righteousness.

I am not talking about a touchy feely guilt response, but the feeling of a touch from the Holy Spirit correcting me, and my response to it.

In the continuous communication with the Spirit within me, how can I not wish to turn away from the sin, at least in my heart, hoping that my body will follow when I have practiced turning away enough?

Why else the correction of the Holy Spirit, and the teaching He gives us?

Blessings to you both,

Forrest


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/4/20 11:41Profile
BenWilliams
Member



Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas

 Re:

Hey Forrest, I'm back. I am including the first part of what I wrote for clarity's sake. I hope to answer your question with a good answer that will make some sense.


--------------------------------------------------
That said, we must discuss the difference between the spirit and the flesh, and also of conviction from the Holy Spirit.

The first thing about all of this that we must understand is that the flesh is an abomination to God, it cannot dwell in his presence, it is completely and utterly hated by God.

So God had to judge the flesh because it was unrighteous, and abominable. When He judged it, He put it to death, and all of the works that it had, is, and will produce.

Now, based off of what Paul writes, I believe he makes a clear distinction that the spirit is righteous, and the flesh is wicked.

If the flesh is totally wicked, and the spirit is totally righteous, if one of them dies, then the one remaining is the only one alive.

So if Christ put to death the flesh and all it's works, then the only thing remaining in a believer is the spirit, which is righteous.
--------------------------------------------------


Ok, now in reference to the issue you brought up concerning guilt, or rather more potently conviction of the Holy Spirit concerning sin.

When a person commits sin, as I have already discussed, it is not them(their spirit) that commits the sin, it is the flesh.

Now Paul tells us that Christ has quickened our mortal bodies so that we are not in bondage to the patterns of sin.

We then walk out the path of sanctification, which is a process that the Holy Spirit works in us to change us so that we are more like Christ.

So when we sin with the flesh, the Holy Spirit convicts us, showing us not to walk in that way, and showing us paths of righteousness that we are to walk in.

So, to sum it up, when we feel that conviction from the Holy Spirit, it is one that says subdue your sin, and have dominion over it.

Now let me clarify, because much of this is confusing. We must remember that our flesh is dead, no sin is imputed to us, and our spirit cannot commit sin, however, our mortal bodies are still walking in the paths that the flesh walked, even though the flesh has been put to death. So now, in this state, the Spirit teaches us to control our mortal bodies, and does so by conviction. This is the process of sanctification.

Now, we repent when we have failed to obey the convictions of the Holy Spirit, because any conviction, is the same as a command. And we are commanded to obey the Lord.

[b]I hope this helps to clarify everything, if not, please ask your questions, and I will readily provide any answers you want.[/b]


_________________
Benjamin Williams

 2007/4/25 13:46Profile
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re:

Quote:

BenWilliams wrote:
Hey Forrest, I'm back. I am including the first part of what I wrote for clarity's sake. I hope to answer your question with a good answer that will make some sense...So, to sum it up, when we feel that conviction from the Holy Spirit, it is one that says subdue your sin, and have dominion over it.

Now let me clarify, because much of this is confusing. We must remember that our flesh is dead, no sin is imputed to us, and our spirit cannot commit sin, however, our mortal bodies are still walking in the paths that the flesh walked, even though the flesh has been put to death. So now, in this state, the Spirit teaches us to control our mortal bodies, and does so by conviction. This is the process of sanctification.

Now, we repent when we have failed to obey the convictions of the Holy Spirit, because any conviction, is the same as a command. And we are commanded to obey the Lord.

[b]I hope this helps to clarify everything, if not, please ask your questions, and I will readily provide any answers you want.[/b]



Yes, Indeed! Very clear and answered my question.

Thank you for the time.

Blessings,

Forrest


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/4/27 15:54Profile





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