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JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Ben,

Does God have the ability to save all men but chooses not to because of his respect for man's Free Will?

or

Does God not have the ability to save all men because of man's Free Will?

 2007/3/7 16:05Profile
BenWilliams
Member



Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas

 Re:

Jay wrote:

Quote:
Does God have the ability to save all men but chooses not to because of his respect for man's Free Will?

or

Does God not have the ability to save all men because of man's Free Will?



Neither, God [u]has[/u] atoned for all men's sins, and in so doing was able to offer every man salvation.

The reson for giving man free will in the matter is because God wants genuine love, and belief. If he gives them all those things, and changes all their desires, than they are no different than the angels of which he already has many.

By offering a choice, it sorts out who is truly in love with him, and who is not. He is no respecter of persons, therefore He cannot choose one man over another in salvation.


_________________
Benjamin Williams

 2007/3/7 16:26Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Ben,

Come on now you cannot avoid the questions. :-) Either God has the ability to save and doesn't or he does not have the ability.

Also, if God has atoned for all men's sins then all men would go to heaven because their would be no basis for judgment.

How can God atone for all men's sins and yet punish man for the sin of unbelief? Did Jesus not atone for all sins?

 2007/3/7 16:35Profile









 Re: advice on a verse

Ben wrote

Quote:
if Peter is talking about himself, then he is saying that he has not yet repented, and God is being patient with him until he does. But we already know he has repented, so he is not talking about himself.

Hi Ben,

I agree that Peter had repented - at least three times, perhaps - but surely all of us need the goodness of God to lead us to repentance even more often?

Look at the lists of sins which Paul is constantly re-iterating [i]to the churches[/i], such as Corinthians, which just one brother was called upon to repent of idolatry (fornication).... a sin which has the power to wrest a person's salvation from them, if they make it a lifestyle.


Jay, I liked how you explained the verse, and I see that it could be applied to generations yet unevangelised, but, [i]in the context[/i] of the letter, it should be applied to those to whom it was written, only (don't you think)?

Quote:
Actually, if you do an apologetic study of the entire book of Romans, it was written to the Jews who had a conflict with the gospel that Paul was preaching. Only a small section is written to others, (the gentiles) which is found in chapters 10 and 11.

Ben,

There are no less than 4 (maybe 5 if you include the Katz thread), running on the topic addressed by Paul in Romans.

It is a serious mistake to start carving scripture up and aportioning it to ethnic groups. I ask you to reconsider this approach, seeing Jesus said

Luke 4:4
"It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by [u]every word of God[/u].' " (NKJV)


Please receive this earnest entreaty. I'm sorry I don't have enough time to garnish it with any other appeal.

 2007/3/7 16:37
strawrifle
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 139
uk

 Re:

Hi all,though i'm honored that you all replied,it wasnt my intention to turn this into a Calvinist vs Arminianism discussion..

It was more the question that while God waits more people are born,and that God always run the risk of more perishing,that perplexed me..

As far as Calvinism or Arminianism,as the parable goes were all holding a part of an Elephant in the dark,but the same Elephant none the less..

aj


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andy

 2007/3/7 16:42Profile
BenWilliams
Member



Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
I agree that Peter had repented - at least three times, perhaps - but surely all of us need the goodness of God to lead us to repentance even more often?



Absolutely, but that is not what I was addressing, I was addressing repentance toward salvation, not sanctification.

Quote:
It is a serious mistake to start carving scripture up and aportioning it to ethnic groups. I ask you to reconsider this approach, seeing Jesus said



I think you misunderstood what I meant. I was not saying that those scriptures are for jews only, I was saying that Paul was talking to the Jews, so when we take what he said to the jews, and pull parts of it out of context, we will miss entirely the message that was being spoken.

I absoluteley believe romans applies to us, just as it does to the Jews. But if you read it from any other preface than that of how it was written, and why it was written, you lose the truth, and obtain religious jargon that means little.


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Benjamin Williams

 2007/3/7 16:44Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Quote:
in the context of the letter, it should be applied to those to whom it was written, only (don't you think)?



I respectfully disagree. The context of the letter shows that Peter is explaining that God is patient because he wants all who will come to a saving knowledge of Christ to do so; not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance.

This ties in well with the 'fullness of the Gentiles' mentioned by Paul in Romans 11:
"Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in."

Also Acts 13:48, "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."

 2007/3/7 16:47Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Quote:
It was more the question that while God waits more people are born,and that God always run the risk of more perishing,that perplexed me..



I apologize strawrifle for moving this away from where you were intending.

I hope you found my previous answer to 2 Peter 3:9 helpful. If not, let me know.

 2007/3/7 16:51Profile
strawrifle
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 139
uk

 Re:

Hi Jay, its all good lol

in fact Chris reply as given me something to chew over..
aj


_________________
andy

 2007/3/7 17:09Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Ben,
If the book of Romans is only to the Jews as you have said, then what is our hope? seeing that is one of the most precise treatments of man's condition(both Jew and Gentile), as well as the glory of God's grace.

Also, to make it only apply to the Jews, you would be going against at least a thousand years of Church History, as well as many of the men who are on this site. Are you really willing to do that?

I do not know what resources you have used to exegete, and study this Book, but may I suggest reading Matthew Henry's Commentary on this book?

Also, if we were to discount the books of the Bible because of who they were written to, we wouldn't have much to stand on would we?

:-)


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patrick heaviside

 2007/3/7 17:49Profile





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