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mom23beagles
Member



Joined: 2007/2/25
Posts: 55
Appleton, Wisconsin, USA

 Do all dogs really go to Heaven? - John MacArthur

[url=http://www.gty.org/resources.php?section=issues&aid=176418]http://www.gty.org/resources.php?section=issues&aid=176418[/url]

This is a difficult one for me. I am childless (by choice), and my beagles have been the earthly beings that I have had to care for and love. Many times while I was still in sin they were the only thing that got me out of my bed and pity party because they needed care. There's a long story behind this and perhaps I can share it some time but I don't want to take the focus off this discussion.

God has made me as I am, with a heart for people and for the animals - I see Psalm 139:13-16:

"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb.

I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.

My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth,

your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be."

I have lost two precious beagles along the way - Willy and Peanut, both seniors. At the time of their deaths, I struggled very much, but as I was still in sin at the time I did not see the full picture and was still taking counsel from my "friends" in the world who said, "don't worry, you'll see Willy and Peanut again when you get to Heaven."

Now, as all things are become new, I am becoming convinced that I will not see them again, but I am very okay with that. We will be in Heaven to praise God for eternity, nothing else is going to matter. I will not be there to get a hug from my deceased beagles, as much as I would have loved to believe that at the time of their deaths and in the subsequent months.

I have their ashes and pictures as a memorial and I remember them fondly as an enormous part of my life. I grieve no longer but do have times when I miss them terribly.

So I guess my question is, has anyone else had this experience and what is your take, knowing what the Word says, about all this? Pastor MacArthur's piece is nice, comforting to a certain extent, and I appreciate it. But more and more I am believing that my beagles, while I adore them, they are part of my family, and I believe I have been entrusted with their care, are merely a blessing here on earth, and to not expect any more than that from them.

I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts on this. My focus is my walk with the Lord, growth and fruitfulness. My expectation is that God will keep me and sustain me and not let anything get in the way of that, as long as I follow His paths. I'm ready to hear what anyone has to say about this - I believe the time has come, by the grace of God.

Mia and Bailey, Dugan, Buddy and Agnes the beagles.





 2007/3/5 12:27Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Do all dogs really go to Heaven? - John MacArthur

Hi sister,

Write this with a bit of hesitancy, one of our brothers here recently lost his loyal companion...

This being one of those things not mentioned in specific have always come back to the situation with Nathan and David as a consideration;

12:1 And the LORD sent Nathan unto David. And he came unto him, and said unto him, There were two men in one city; the one rich, and the other poor.

12:2 The rich [man] had exceeding many flocks and herds:

12:3 [b]But the poor [man] had nothing, save one little ewe lamb, which he had bought and nourished up: and it grew up together with him, and with his children; it did eat of his own meat, and drank of his own cup, and lay in his bosom, and was unto him as a daughter[/b].

12:4 And there came a traveller unto the rich man, and he spared to take of his own flock and of his own herd, to dress for the wayfaring man that was come unto him; but took the poor man's lamb, and dressed it for the man that was come to him.

12:5 And David's anger was greatly kindled against the man; and he said to Nathan, [As] the LORD liveth, the man that hath done this [thing] shall surely die:

12:6 And he shall restore the lamb fourfold, because he did this thing, and because he had no pity.

Whatever the case may be in the telling of it, as an illustration as it seems, still, the understanding that this was a pet and loved does show forth something substantive at the level of indignation that came from Davids heart (though it was used to prove him guiltily of his doing the same).

David was a man after God's own heart even with his failure and I realize it is a stretch to make this bridge the gap... Being that the scriptures are silent and speculation what it is, still think I would be surprised that the desires of our hearts would not be met there with sloppy kisses and contented purring. :-)


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/3/5 15:47Profile









 Re: Do all dogs really go to Heaven? - John MacArthur

Hi Sis

I posted a reply on this but it seems not to have got through, so try again!

Romans 8:18-21 is the only scripture I know of that seems to be saying that there will be animals, if not in heaven, certainly in the New Creation somewhere.

No time just now to listen to the link you posted, (its late here) but this may help...?

[i]18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; [b]21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.[/b][/i]

In Him

Jeannette

 2007/3/5 18:17
joyinjesus8
Member



Joined: 2007/3/2
Posts: 69
Outback Australia

 Re: Do all dogs really go to Heaven? - John MacArthur

I read this message a few times, it touched my heart. Our loyal companion Cassandra-Jane will be 17 of our years old in a couple of months. Animals are a part of the family and since I can remember I would sob buckets over even the merest fish that left this world.

Admittedly I have not studied the subject. I am thankful for the last 2 posts. I believe that the great Creator speaks all languages - including those of our featheres and furry friends. I will certainly be having a look into this as our pets are very important and much loved.

Blessings


_________________
Ann - but everyone calls me Joy

 2007/3/5 19:46Profile
John173
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 289
Omaha

 Re:

Part of the glory of God is the creation itself! Just look at the incredible variety He has placed here for our enjoyment! Whether it is landscapes, trees, fruits, vegetables, flowers, fish, birds, and even dogs. Will this God of ours have changed His tune regarding our eternal home? I like what Keith Green had to say. "If it took God six days to create the whole world, and He's been working on heaven for two thousand years.." Well he compares this earth to living in a garbage can and I can't quite agree with that, but you get the point. Will our beloved pets be there to great us? I've no idea, but I am convinced there will be some beautiful animals, and just think, none of them are likely to try and eat you!

Praise God!

Looking forward to that day,

Doug


_________________
Doug Fussell

 2007/3/5 20:31Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

I have loved dogs all my life. I had just started to breed them when God took hold of my life in my teens. Currently we have a Staffy; the third in a line of delinquents of this breed. Jerome K Jerome once said that 'fox terriers have twice as much original sin as other dogs' but he had clearly never had a Staffy. (and he was joking, before we start the whole original sin thread again!)

I think John MacArthur says just about all that can be said on the topic but I will add this general comment. I don't believe the Enemy will have the last word. In a sense I don't believe anything that is truly noble or beautiful will be missing from heaven and I don't believe that anything that is ignoble or ugly will be there either.

Heaven is a place where all tears are wiped away; even tears for our dogs! (and I have shed a few in my time!) I don't know how all this will be resolved but I believe that God will undo the effects of man's sin upon the animal creation. Surely the creation's longings will find their fulfillment and not just in the last generation when he returns.

As I write my own dog is lying at my feet, sighing and waiting... for her walk. Not a single bird falls to the ground alone. God knows all the longings of the animal creation. Somehow, somewhere nothing will be wasted.

BTW Mark Twain once commented 'Heaven must be by grace, otherwise you would be shut out and your dog let in'. Not a biblical sentiment but a provoking one all the same. :-)


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/3/6 4:50Profile





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