id like peoples views on this, i believe it is a possibility, not to sin, not to be affected at all by this worlds lust and by our lusts of the Flesch, I'm not saying it happens over night, but it is possible. And as i read the bible i find the word confirms this. Why should strive to be as perfect as Jesus, live like him talk like him act as he did, be so intune whit the spirit we know when to speak , when to be quiet and every thing we even think is of God.

i hear so much like -ohh we trapped in this body of sin, ain't nothing you can do about that

and

nobody's perfect(its true, but often used as an excuse for sin)

and all sorts of different views. But i believe we can live and be as holy as Jesus Christ was when he walked here on earth,

God bless you
Christian

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CHRISTIAN

This is a big can of worms you opened up :-)

I believe we can live as Jesus lived (if He is in us via the Holy Spirit) but we can never meet his track record concerning resisting all temptations. We have all sinned. Can we not sin in the present/future? Of course. But the only thing perfectly holy in us is the Holy Spirit. The flesh is rotten. And the flesh is on us. It doesn't have to be in control, if we put it in submission. But these sort of discussions tend to be totally unedifying. If Jesus = your focus day and night then you'll live a Holy life. Theoretically you can not sin in the future, in practicality will you? Depends but if you look at yourself in the mirror you'll see your flesh on your face and know how much you are dependent upon the very grace of God. We are not bound by Sin's grasp but we still sin from time to time. It's rather complex-- I don't fully grasp it to tbh so I'm not authority on this-- but this is just how I feel currently, I could very well be wrong.

Jordan

I'm just thinking if salvation doesn't free us from sin this side off eternity(possibility of it) then it isn't much of a salvation.... why would he come and die for us and become sin for us...if we still have to live in that same wretched corrupted state... it doesn't work out in my mind

this is the sin part, but also to live and be affected by this world as to do the will of our father, is that a possibility? to be as much in the fathers will as Jesus was,

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CHRISTIAN

Okay salvation does free us from "Sin"-- but not "sin." (This was Ron Bailey's illustration so props to him.) The little sins are stuff that are not going to master us but will come about from time to time. But we are no longer chained by it.

We don't have to sin (or live) in that "same wretched corrupted state." I mean, we live in it insofar as our body is rotten flesh, but look at it this way: our heart and mind is God's. It ain't impossible. But we have to still have the body that once was in that state-- it's on us. It doesn't have to be our Master, though it can be. But it reminds us of where we came from.

Is it possible to be in as much in the Fathers will as Jesus was? Brother I can't speak of much experience but I believe it is. All it takes is patience and willingness to be broken I guess. His will is against our will. So we got to throw out our will and take up His will.. it's a growth process that I'm just at the beginning stages of!

I struggle with sin so much it does make me wonder how Jesus did it. It's truly so awesome how he abstained from all temptations. Man. Thankfully we don't have the sin of the world resting on our shoulders like Jesus did (sorry-- if you think so, we don't... we ain't literally Jesus :-P).


Jordan

I am reading Holiness by J.C. Ryle right now, and this portion is from the introduction

That believers are exhorted to "perfect holiness in the fear of God"--to "go on to perfection"--to "be perfect," no careful reader of his Bible will ever think of denying. ( 2 Corinthians 7:1; Hebrews 6:1; 2 Corinthians 13:11.) But I have yet to learn that there is a single passage in Scripture which teaches that a literal perfection, a complete and entire freedom from sin, in thought, or word, or deed, is attainable, or has ever been attained, by any child of Adam in this world. A comparative perfection, a perfection in knowledge, an all-around consistency in every relation of life, a through soundness in every point of doctrine--this may be seen occasionally in some of God's believing people. But as to an absolute literal perfection, the most eminent saints of God in every age have always been the very last to lay claim to it! On the contrary they have always had the deepest sense of their own utter unworthiness and imperfection. The more spiritual light they have enjoyed the more they have seen their own countless defects and shortcomings. The more grace they have had the more they been "clothed with humility." ( 1 Peter 5:5.)

What saint can be named in God's Word, of whose life many details are recorded, who was literally and absolutely perfect? Which of them all, when writing about himself, ever talks of feeling free from imperfection? On the contrary, men like David, and St. Paul, and St. John, declare in the strongest language that they feel in their own hearts weakness and sin. The holiest men of modern times have always been remarkable for deep humility. Have we ever seen holier men then the martyred John Bradford, or Hooker, or Usher, or Baxter, or Rutherford, or M'Cheyne? Yet no one can read the writings and letters of these men without seeing that they felt themselves "debtors to mercy and grace" every day, and the very last thing they ever laid claim to was perfection!

In face of such facts as these I must protest against the language used in many quarters, in these last days, about perfection. I must think that those who use it either know very little of the nature of sin, or the attributes of God, or of their own hearts, or of the Bible, or of the meaning of words. When a professing Christian coolly tells me that he has got beyond such hymns as "Just as I am," and that they are below his present experience, though they suited him when he first took up religion, I must think his soul is in a very unhealthy state! When a man can talk coolly of the possibility of "living without sin" while in the body, and can actually say that he has "never had an evil thought for three months," I can only say that in my opinion he is a very ignorant Christian! I protest against such teaching as this. It not only does no good, but does immense harm. It disgusts and alienates from religion far-seeing men of the world, who know it is incorrect and untrue. It depresses some of the best of God's children, who feel they never can attain to "perfection" of this kind. It puffs up many weak brethren, who fancy they are something when they are nothing. In short, it is a dangerous delusion.

It can be read online here
[url=http://www.gracegems.org/Ryle/holiness.htm]Holiness[/url]

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patrick heaviside

I believe we can become overwhelmed if we take our eyes off Jesus, it is His holiness that allows us to be holy. Keep your eyes on Him and continue to walk in faith.
blessings,
Pat

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Pat

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TJ

roaringlamb

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TJ

So far it has been a tremendous blessing. Ryle has both fire and balance which is a great thing.

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patrick heaviside

i really like Ryles writings to, Ive read some from him, but this subject of holy living is disappearing, Ive also listened to some videos from Zac Poonen that makes me want to live a more holy life, they really convicted me, another is statements from men like tozer saying -you are as holy as you really want to be,

or ravenhill saying its not impossible to sin, its possible not to sin......

and often today we call legalism what past generations called holy living, i also believe that is one of the main reasons we don't SE revival, the lack of holiness....

maybe its just me but if we really cant be made holy, and free from sin...then it would be kind of stupid for Paul to write and say work on your salvation whit fear and trembling, why should we work on ourself if we cant get to the "Goal" , and people say the goal is in heaven, i agree on that to some degree... but if thats the way then the best thing to do would just be do die as fast as possible.

I'm looking for the balance in this,

thankful for all your replies and help

Christian

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CHRISTIAN