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Discussion Forum : General Topics : I am so sick of the easy-believism that is so prevailant in American Christianity!

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 Re:

Quote:

hmmhmm wrote:
but something that just comes to mind, why did Paul write to the Corinthians, and warn them don't do this and don't do that? i believe because he wanted to warn them if you continue to live that way you going to miss the "mark",


and Jesus says in Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


that implies to me he can erase one persons name if he comes to saving faith and then went astray for some reason, one i believe is unholy living.

whiteout holiness you wont see the Lord, no matter if you are a "hard" believer ;-)


just my thoughts on it

Ahhh, but brother where does your holiness come from? Does it come from you? My holiness is Jesus and I'm in Christ. He's MY holiness. You see? :-D

 2007/3/4 15:40
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

nothing good ever came from me brother .... all from him all from Jesus...but the thing is...many people think they have him when they dont... many many multitudes of people are deceived into believing they are saved when they are not...thats the problem as i see it


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2007/3/4 15:45Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

i could say so mant things and so on, but i belive this comp says it better then i ever could brother:-) maybe you already heard it?

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=13118&commentView=itemComments]ALL TO JESUS[/url]


i recomend it


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2007/3/4 15:48Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
easy believism? What the opposite of that?



Fair question.

I don't think Paul Washer is questioning the simplicity of faith in Christ or trying to add man-made hurdles to make it hard to be a Christian. I think he is more concerned about how 'easy' it is these days to claim the Christian faith while not sharing in or imitating any of Jesus' nature.

Barnum polls reveal that the majority of Christians have finally achieved total resemblance to the world in all moral and spiritual areas of life. Evangelicals have been so concerned with being accepted into the mainstream that they have succeeded...and as a result are trading distinction for extinction.

Christianity has become the quest for acceptance and happiness. This weak sociological Christianity, and not the profound but simple assurance of justification by faith, is the subject of Paul Washers concern. I think the original Paul who defended justification by faith from the Judiazers, would be the first to share Washers alarm over the modern pandemic of easy believism in the church.

When people who are identified with righteousness behave wickedly without self-criticism or reproof, they deny the very existance of righteousness...they deny that there is such a thing as the power of Godliness. Washers' lament is ultimately not a rant for his own personal religous standards...but a zeal for God's name to be trusted...let alone feared among the 'gentiles' who need the Gospel.

Blessings,

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2007/3/4 16:12Profile









 Re:

Quote:

J-bird wrote:
Well, well. Look at how HOLY I am I don't do all these things that you do. I'm SOOOO spiritual and I'm a christian, not you, because I do this and this, and this, and don't do this. You are sooo decieved because you watched a dirty movie, or listen to Britney Spears your not really a christian because your not very holy.

Sounds kinda like the pharisees.

Why don't he just become holiness or methodist and quit calling himself a baptist. ;-)



I don't understand, Jay. Just listened to the first part of the talk, especially the very beginning, where he prays. That was enough to show that this man doesn't have a judgemental heart - or at that at least was the impression I got from it.

I remember once being offended with a conference speaker, and trying hard to convince myself he wasn't as "spiritual" as the others.

It turned out that the Lord was using him to challenge me on the issue of infant baptism and I didn't want to listen!

I didn't even know what it was about his talks I sdidn't like - that only came to the surface later...

I don't know if your reason for not likeing the speaker has any reason such as that - maybe not - but its a possibility that maybe should be prayed about?

That doesn't mean the man is 100% right or perfect of course. Maybe you have discerned something "off", but maybe he's just genuinely broken-hearted about the state of the Church in the Western world.

That's not judging - unless most of the OT prophets were Pharasaical as well!

At the moment I'm only too aware of my own faults to attempt to judge anyone :-(

Jeannette

 2007/3/4 16:32









 Re:

Quote:

LittleGift wrote:
Quote:

J-bird wrote:
Well, well. Look at how HOLY I am I don't do all these things that you do. I'm SOOOO spiritual and I'm a christian, not you, because I do this and this, and this, and don't do this. You are sooo decieved because you watched a dirty movie, or listen to Britney Spears your not really a christian because your not very holy.

Sounds kinda like the pharisees.

Why don't he just become holiness or methodist and quit calling himself a baptist. ;-)



I don't understand, Jay. Just listened to the first part of the talk, especially the very beginning, where he prays. That was enough to show that this man doesn't have a judgemental heart - or at that at least was the impression I got from it.

I remember once being offended with a conference speaker, and trying hard to convince myself he wasn't as "spiritual" as the others.

It turned out that the Lord was using him to challenge me on the issue of infant baptism and I didn't want to listen!

I didn't even know what it was about his talks I sdidn't like - that only came to the surface later...

I don't know if your reason for not likeing the speaker has any reason such as that - maybe not - but its a possibility that maybe should be prayed about?

That doesn't mean the man is 100% right or perfect of course. Maybe you have discerned something "off", but maybe he's just genuinely broken-hearted about the state of the Church in the Western world.

That's not judging - unless most of the OT prophets were Pharasaical as well!

At the moment I'm only too aware of my own faults to attempt to judge anyone :-(

Jeannette

Hi little gift,


I'm saying that you cannot discern who is in Christ and who is out of Christ by their works, and that's what he's doing.

There are many who look really spiritual, and act really spiritual, and can qoute the bible that are as lost as hell itself. Did you notice that these were FALSE PROPHETS he was talking about. The prophets had some pretty high standards to meet before they were called prophets.

 2007/3/4 16:55
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: should we gather them up?

Hi again all.




Quote:
I'm saying that you cannot discern who is in Christ and who is out of Christ by their works, and that's what he's doing.



I could be wrong about this, but I think there is something just under the surface of what Jason is trying to get at here. Maybe this is what he is thinking of...


[b][color=660033]So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this... [/color][/b]



[i]...The servants said unto him, [b]Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?[/b][/i]


[b][color=660033] But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them...[/color][/b]

[i][b][color=660033]...Let both grow together until the harvest: [/color][/b][/i]


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/3/4 17:08Profile









 Re:

Quote:

J-bird wrote:
Quote:

mom23beagles wrote:
Wow, I didn't sense any judgment from Paul Washer in his message. His emphasis was more that the "once saved, always saved" doctrine is not biblical and you can't just go on your merry way and sin as you like and never repent just because you prayed the sinner's prayer. Maybe it's just me? Help me understand what you mean, J-bird. I didn't have a "holier than thou" sense coming from him or message.

Mia and Bailey, Dugan, Buddy and Agnes the beagles.

Right, because he seemed so humble? Humility is just a cover alot of times. Know that from experience also. :-D Hey, anything to try to get people to the alter. I was almost convinced I was the ONLY one really saved. I even doubted my wife was saved. She's more consistent in her prayer life than me, she should have doubted mine. This is a wicked evil heart my friend, and I can say that because I was there. My heart was so wicked and I was so bitter and judgemental. Your not really saved look at how wretched you are, your a discusting sinner. No I did'nt say that. I framed it up into a humble little picture that seemed so sincere, but that's what I was thinking.

I would say things like "I'm telling you this because I love you". I did'nt love anybody, I WANTED THEM TO CONFORM TO MY STANDARDS.


Still reading through this thread, (and trying to carry on a MSN converstation at the same time!) but think I'm beginning to realise where you're coming from, Jay.

You are especially sensitive to wrong motives in this area because you've been there, is that it?

But becasue your motives were wrong that time you spoke of, doesn't mean this man's are necessarily wrong. Maybe he's managed by the grace of God to avoid this particular pitfall?

Its so subtle - the Lord has been convicting me of something similar. Maybe becaues I'm female it comes in the form of "needing to be needed" and trying to "correct" people "in love".

In fact I'm probably doing that at this very moment! :oops:

I'm off before I put my foot in it again!

Love in Him

jeannette

 2007/3/4 17:08
myfirstLove
Member



Joined: 2005/11/26
Posts: 496


 Re:

j-bird, your saying paul is judging? what are you doing? Your doing the same thing that you are telling others not to do. Sounds like you are judging Paul like a pharisee without looking at the fruit.

Didn't Jesus say that you will know them by their fruit? Jesus tells us to use righteos judgement or else we will be deceived by false doctrines, wolves , and false brothers.

We should not use our experience to correct others. What does the word say?


_________________
Lisa

 2007/3/4 17:17Profile









 Re:

Quote:

ChrisJD wrote:
Hi again all.




Quote:
I'm saying that you cannot discern who is in Christ and who is out of Christ by their works, and that's what he's doing.



I could be wrong about this, but I think there is something just under the surface of what Jason is trying to get at here. Maybe this is what he is thinking of...


[b][color=660033]So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this... [/color][/b]



[i]...The servants said unto him, [b]Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?[/b][/i]


[b][color=660033] But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them...[/color][/b]

[i][b][color=660033]...Let both grow together until the harvest: [/color][/b][/i]

You got it bro. ;-) But then again is this individual people he's talking about? Or is this other religious groups such as jehovahs witness, mormons, ect.... Why not root them out? Because in doing so we tread on our own freedom to function as the church without persecution.

But that's a whole other thread :-P

 2007/3/4 17:19





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