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Discussion Forum : General Topics : I am so sick of the easy-believism that is so prevailant in American Christianity!

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 Re:

I know that chapter very well, I've actually memorized the whole chapter. This chapter is talking about the fall of the gentile civilization, and how they started out knowing God and turned from God to idols and it went south from there. I'm actually out the door on my way to church so I'll have to continue this later.

Would love to discuss this further, if we can do it in love.

 2007/3/4 11:23
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

of course brother, i just mean Paul didn't write chapter 1 and then chapter 2, he wrote one letter and to me what he says in chapter 1 is the must judgmental statement one can make... in my opinion. S when he speaks about judging or not in chap 2 , either he is a hypocrite... or he means something else... I'm not quite sure myself, but when someone murders another person, we say he is a murderer...is that to judge? of course but it is a right judgment.

Joh 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.


so is it possible, that when we judge we should judge from what the bible says, i agree if we judge by our own views that is wrong, or our own feelings and so on. thats my take on it,

another popular verse people speak about in this matter is

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.


but later in that very same chapter he tells us to judge false prophets

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.


that must also be an awful thing what judgment to judge someone as to be a false prophet a false teacher! if i say that to someone i say in other words you are not from God and what you teach is from the devil, thats heavy...


just my view on this matter, maybe we should go into a separate thread whit this matter? and let this thread be what it was intended to be? looking forward to discuss in love Brother :-)

it is possible for me to be wrong, its a freedom to know that sometimes :-)






what do you think?


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CHRISTIAN

 2007/3/4 11:39Profile
ChrisJD
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Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: I am so sick of the easy-believism that is so prevailant in American Christianity

Hi everyone.


I don't know brothers and sisters, but I wonder if there isn't something about our observations and declarations of things called Modern Christianity that [i]can be[/i] in danger of drifitng into, well,


[i]grumbling[/i] even if it sounds pious.


[i] And Moses said, This shall be, when the Lord shall give you in the evening flesh to eat, and in the morning bread to the full; for that the Lord heareth your murmurings which ye murmur against him: and what are we? your murmurings are not against us, but against the Lord.[/i]



Strong's Ref. # 8519

Romanized tluwnah
Pronounced tel-oo-naw'

or tlunnah {tel-oon-naw'}; from HSN3885 in the sense of obstinacy; a grumbling:

KJV--murmuring.



Let me give you an example of what I'm wondering about here...


I work in a management position and one thing I've noticed about managers is that they like to talk to each other about things on the job, often about what is wrong with this, that, or the other.

Sometimes this is nescessary, in order to make changes, ect.. Other times it is just plain gossip. When I've talked to other managers about this who have come to me with this sort of thing, I've told them how I recognise if something is gossip:


[b]One[/b] Do I have a reason to know what you are telling me.

[b]Two[/b] And this goes along with the first one, can I do any about what you are telling me; that is, am I in a postion to bring about a positive change to the situation.


So in other words, if you are coming to me and telling me all this garbage about so and so, just to [i]get it off your chest[/i] or to [i]vent[/i] or whatever, then forget it because I don't want to listen to someone's poisonous words about someone else.

So my wondering here then is about what happens if things are being spoken, not about any one person, but about God's Church.

Brothers, I recognise the need to call out evil. I think my concern here is more about the spirit of it.

Just some thoughts. I hope no one misunderstands me. Perhaps I can offer this then as nothing more than a gentle reminder, or a brief word of caution.


Your's in the paitient waiting for God's Son,

Christopher


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/3/4 14:19Profile
hmmhmm
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 Re:

thank you brother for the reminder


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 2007/3/4 14:23Profile









 Re:

Hey bro. you might be right about starting another thread, but I would like to continue in this one if possible, since the heading is about easy believism.

Let me start by giving you a little word of testimony. I preached a message almost identical to the one he preached at a church a while back. It was a revival. The responce was overwhelming. The alters were full and it seemed like God really moved in that church, but the whole time I was preaching that message the Lord was pricking my heart and I KNEW it was wrong. This was a baptist church. The pastor there was an old holiness preacher who converted to baptist. He knew the doctrine I was preaching all too well.

His eyes starred right through me, and I knew, that he knew, that I knew what I was preaching was WRONG. :-( He talked to me shortly after and said just a few little words that stabbed me right in the heart. He said "We need to be careful what we preach". That was it, and that's all it took for me to get right with God. My heart was in termoil because I had been teaching this doctrine, I had NO peace. Then God reveled to me that my salvation lies in His Son and his Son alone.

Now, you hear him say that quite often in his message, which should throw up red flags. Everyone knows that salvation is by faith alone, right? It seems to me, and this is just an assumption, that he's mixed up in his foundational doctines, as I have been, and I say this because It's easy to pick up on when you've been there. without the frim foundation of the doctine of justification all else is a farce. It sounds good what he's saying, but it's just not biblical.

Listen, I can right a message that would have ministers doubting their own salvation, but what good is that. I think we should build peoples faith, and hope, and love by the word of God instead of condemn the justified. Just preach the cross and let God do the drawing.

Where do we get off thinking we are the Holy Spirit, we need to let Him do His work and we need to do ours.

 2007/3/4 14:49
hmmhmm
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Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

but there is a danger whit this easy belivism... Jesus said in the parable of the sower in Mar 4:13 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

if we don't understand even this, that there are false converts, false believers just as there are false teachers and false prophets...there are many many many false belivers...fallen into this easy believes. We do need to let the spirit do its work, but God also uses men, filled whit the holy spirit.

we need to preach the cross... as in death to self, death to the world


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 2007/3/4 15:06Profile
mom23beagles
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Joined: 2007/2/25
Posts: 55
Appleton, Wisconsin, USA

 Re:

Wow, I didn't sense any judgment from Paul Washer in his message. His emphasis was more that the "once saved, always saved" doctrine is not biblical and you can't just go on your merry way and sin as you like and never repent just because you prayed the sinner's prayer. Maybe it's just me? Help me understand what you mean, J-bird. I didn't have a "holier than thou" sense coming from him or the message.

Mia and Bailey, Dugan, Buddy and Agnes the beagles.

 2007/3/4 15:17Profile









 Re:

easy believism? What the opposite of that? Hard believism? that don't even sound right, "easy believism". The legalists don't like that, but it is that simple.

 2007/3/4 15:17









 Re:

Quote:

mom23beagles wrote:
Wow, I didn't sense any judgment from Paul Washer in his message. His emphasis was more that the "once saved, always saved" doctrine is not biblical and you can't just go on your merry way and sin as you like and never repent just because you prayed the sinner's prayer. Maybe it's just me? Help me understand what you mean, J-bird. I didn't have a "holier than thou" sense coming from him or message.

Mia and Bailey, Dugan, Buddy and Agnes the beagles.

Right, because he seemed so humble? Humility is just a cover alot of times. Know that from experience also. :-D Hey, anything to try to get people to the alter. I was almost convinced I was the ONLY one really saved. I even doubted my wife was saved. She's more consistent in her prayer life than me, she should have doubted mine. This is a wicked evil heart my friend, and I can say that because I was there. My heart was so wicked and I was so bitter and judgemental. Your not really saved look at how wretched you are, your a discusting sinner. No I did'nt say that. I framed it up into a humble little picture that seemed so sincere, but that's what I was thinking.

I would say things like "I'm telling you this because I love you". I did'nt love anybody, I WANTED THEM TO CONFORM TO MY STANDARDS.

 2007/3/4 15:26
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

but something that just comes to mind, why did Paul write to the Corinthians, and warn them don't do this and don't do that? i believe because he wanted to warn them if you continue to live that way you going to miss the "mark",


and Jesus says in Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


that implies to me he can erase one persons name if he comes to saving faith and then went astray for some reason, one i believe is unholy living.

whiteout holiness you wont see the Lord, no matter if you are a "hard" believer ;-)


just my thoughts on it


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 2007/3/4 15:29Profile





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