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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : " Christian Perfection in Perspective "

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sonofthunder
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Joined: 2005/3/31
Posts: 419
Son Of Thunder i come from a land down under, due south at the bottom of your work globes

 " Christian Perfection in Perspective "

From the time i first heard the call to salvation which was in 1981 - until now being that of 2007

The one thing ive heard uttered constantly both by fellow christians and that of preachers who have a "pulpit ministry" is that Christian perfection does not exist -- and neither is it taught in scripture. ( anywhere in scripture )

I was just simply told as a budding new believer to just pucker up and do the best you can and not expect too much ( as even though your saved you are still corrupt on the inside and sin is inevitable ) meaning this - you still fiight sin of course - but from an imperfect perspective.

And as for Christian perfection ~~ forget it - it simplt don't exist in any form ~~ or realm of life

And to prove it i would hear sayings and words such as this from other "believers"
" their's no such a thing as a perfect church is there " ?? some would say to me with a smirking grin.

And this also

" Can you Name me one Christian that hasn't sinned at least once in words, thoughts and deeds this week - and i will point to that man and tell him straight out - and to his face ....and tell him flat out-- he's a flaming liar.

And then i would sit in their pews and hear some other preacher also say in his sermon " thank God for his forgiveness -- after all who hasn't sinned amongst us this week ? usually that same man just to prove his point would then go on to say ~~ and now put your hand up anybody - if you haven't sinned this week !!

What happens then is you get this incredible [arkward silence] throughout the entire congregation - and everybody looks around at each other - to behold wether anyone person was silly and foolish enough to put there hand up.

The preacher then validates his point and then continues on with his sermon -- as though he were reassuring everyone - to expect failure and sins.

And furthermore to the above mentioned thus far whenever i heard someone quote Matthew 5:48 " be ye therefore perfect even as your father which is in heaven is perfect "

I was told that's not what it says ~~ and don't interpret that literally -- it means something else ( don't get carried away to think he actually did expect such -- from us )

And again not to belabour the point but as already articulated -- well meaning christians would then say in response " do you know anybody that's perfect then ?? and did not need the forgiveness of God in their life -- this week " ?

Well their you go then - a rhetorical question he would confidently affirm -- and your your wasting both your breath and your energy to think Perfection exists in any realm of the christian walk and life.

Basically you just gotta take a deep breath then and suck in your gut ~~ eeking out this christian existence - the best you can -- and hopefully i will get to hear one day "these words" [well done thou good and faithful servant] -- that is when i get to the end of my life ( here's to hoping then -- i would think )
and take the deep breath.

But still i thought as a new struggling believer that all is not right with these percieved views.

Let me explain myself: Now in all areas of life ( secular life and with carnal things ) and living in the real world - as we all have do and specially that of our vocations ( our occupations ) we strive for what ?? better results, performance, productivity, a good report in our Job appraisals etc etc ( no ) ?

Take a professional sportsman does he not endure great sacrifices and incredible discipline in order to win the Crown ?? does he not look for any possible edge over his rivals and that through his daily training -- so as to be more competitive - and to possibly win the coveted prize and trophy ? ( the answer is affirmitive )

An olympic swimmer trains up to 30 hours in the pool -- plus gymnasium training, running, walking, diet consultation and physcology counsel -- all to be the best at what he does and to achieve the highest possible result on the DAY.

Take for instance my own occupation ~~ which is
In the highly competetive world of the automobile industry. If i don't stay in touch with the latest products and know what is in the market place -- so as to perform at the "best" of my ability -- then it won't be long before my opposition is taking away my clients and stealing my customers away from me and they are going elsewhere for better service. !

I have no choice then ~~ but to be the best at what i do and to stay on top ~~ in order to have that competetive edge - and to be ultra competetive in my said field.

I virtually have no choice brethren but to strive for perfection - or i will be swallowed up by my opposition. ( sooner - if not later )

In fact the more i think along these lines and about these things i soon came to the realization that christianity is the only area in life that teaches "perfection" is not an aquisition that is attainable " or that is taught to it's adherents.

I thought to myself how strange is all this -- because you are taught from day one in christian cirles not to aim up, or to strive, or to expect to be "as" your master.

Yet the same people who teach mediocrity or this norm [staus quo] of "woe is us" -- we just gotta do the best we can and hope for the best ~~ are the same people who are keeping their houses and homes spotlessly clean and perfect -- that talk about their favourite athlete need to perform better and harder~~ or that they seek to be the best in their particular job vocation and thus please their bosses.

So in essence we have a situation and an anomoly where the of the "perfection" meassage cannot be achieved or attainable ~~ but yet in carnal things ( it can )hmmmm - but conversely living in the Spirit and as a Christian -- it is nowhere to be taught, nor is it to be expected. !!

I may not be the smartest person that ever lived but something tells me somethings is not right with this common thinking ~~ and the way we are being currently taught.

Paul told the believers at corinth that he wished for their perfection.

Jude says that God desires that we be presented faultless.

God told Abraham to " walk before me - and be thou perfect "

Both Job and Noah were just and "perfect" in their generations -- and walked uprightly.

God told satan in fact that his servant Job was unlike any other man in the earth -- he had integrity... he feared God and was virtually blameless in the sight of the almighty.

So am i then of a persuasion andadvocating we will get to a place in our walk with God ~~ that we will [never ever] sin again - as christians.

No~~ and at the risk of someone now accusing me of contradicting -- the point of this whole message - is the same as Paul's message - which was one of - a message of going forward.

To "aim up" as it were brethren ~~ to strive
( but ahh - not in the energy of the flesh )

Even sinners set goals for themselves - to further themselves down the track -- and even sinners make new resolves at the end of each calendar year.

Endeavouring to be better, to gain more from life or to have a higher expectation or more productivity on the Job.

The problem as i see it with the " anti- perfection" message is that it lends itself to mediocrity, the norm, and even passivity -- it conditions the mind to expect defeat and to be laden with sins.

A person commits an iniquity as a beleiever -- he thinks yep i blew it ... but so what he retorts and thinks ~~ yeah but everyone else sins and fails God ( don't they ) and im really know different to everybody else out there ~~ and so we solace and comfort ourselves - this way.

You gotta [aim up brethren] and seek to be more purged, be more mature, have more fruit ~~ and seek a greater level of consecration in your life than the previous years. And implore and beseech God that the whole [sanctification process] would be of a truth - very effectual in your life ( as in on-going ... and in going forwards ).

If we condition ourselves to be stagnant and expect failure -- it leads to a seared conscience and we make light of sins -- and we excuse sin as something we are stuck with. Thus denying Jesus came to break the power of sin through the cross.

Paul exhorted young Timothy to strive for masteries [2 tim 2:4-7] " If a man also strive for masteries yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.

And again he exhorts corinth by saying " know ye not that they that run a race ( run all ) but yet only one person is crowned....so RUN YE
THAT YE MIGHT RECIEVE.

Again this implies a desire to obtian victory, to purge oneself, to aim up - and to know of his fullness !!

Revelation chapter fourteen speaking of those virgins and their character traits -- describing them as being faultless before the throne of God and in whose mouths - is found no guile.

God told the children of Israel through Moses these words from Duet 18:13 " Thou shalt be perfect with the lord thy God "

But some man will reply " i don't care what you say s.o.t ~~ it aint taught in the word and it aint possible - and all christians do sin ~~ and only one man was perfect and faultless and his name was Jesus ... the son of God. ( end quote )

Im glad you said that or thought that actually

Because Jesus did say and teach that no one is above their master .... but " everyone that is PERFECT - shall be (as) their master.

If we pull the wrong way and give ear to the wrong voices - then it becomes very detrimental to the rest of our walk and our own outcome - that is in relation ~~ to our personal walk and maturity as believer's in Christ.

Like i said christianity seems to almost be the only realm in life and existence -- that teaches it's proponents not to aim up ~~ or to have expectations - or to seek for perfection in life ( that is in and through Christ )

In almost every other facet of life in the carnal world, from bosses to sportmen, to business people are they seeking to achieve and aim higher etc etc and are striving to be better at whatsoever their craft might be - and only we teach our converts, disciples and beliecver's the very opposite - and prepare them for defeat and mediocrity.

Shame on us - and shame on the church.

I think were settling for second best - and in the process [being duped] by men who claim to be our teachers and our examples.


_________________
Bro Stephen

 2007/2/27 19:49Profile
hmmhmm
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Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4994
Sweden

 Re: " Christian Perfection in Perspective "

Matthew 5:48 "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

(nasb)


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CHRISTIAN

 2007/2/28 5:47Profile





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