| Poster | Thread | roadsign
Member
Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777
| | Re: to Neil | |
Neil, I listened to the video, and a few thoughts came to me.
Quote:
when you encounter a Jew who takes offense with Gentiles or Christians who initiated persecution of Jews, we are to apologize for them.
I cannot with an honest conscience include myself among the hordes of Christians who persecuted the Jews. Quite the contrary. During WW2 my family was committed to saving their lives - hiding them, sneaking in food, baby clothes etc (all at great personal expense). Some of my relatives lost their lives in the process. There were also many miracles that God performed on behalf of the suffering Jews. My family still carries that love.
Interestingly my family was Reformed, and certainly there was never a mention of Luthers darker side. I had never heard of it. Indeed, my family acted in love - they were TRUE Christians.
I do wonder about the Dr. Browns claim that true born-again spirit-filled Christians are becoming more and more anti-Semitic. I wonder how he arrives at this conclusion. Certainly in my own experience I see quite the opposite even in our complacent churches. I see so much caution extended towards the Jews that sometimes I wonder if they are regarded as beyond needing salvation. After all they ARE Gods chosen people. To me it is not love to view anyone as not needing to experience Gods salvation and grace.
I would like to see the barriers taken down less suspicion, less blame on either side. After all, in Ephesians two we read how God has made us one in Christ. May the Lord work in our lives to tear down the walls and bring us to that place of oneness: at the foot of the cross.
No replacement! Just oneness!
Diane
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Diane
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|  2007/2/27 9:23 | Profile |
| | Re: "replacement theology" | | I am not able to view the video. I do not have the right player on my computer.
I do not believe in "replacement" Theology, but I do believe in "Fulfillment" Theology. In that:
Jesus Christ, being a Jewish man, is the "True" Israel.
He is the Servant of the Lord.
He is the Seed of Abraham.
He is the Son of David.
He is The Seed of the Woman
He is the true Promised Land, and our inheritance.
He is the true Temple of the Lord.
He is the true Sacrifice
He is the true High Priest
He is the Passover Lamb
He is the Sabbath
Etc.
The Substance has come. The types and shadows have been done away with.
Why would God go back to the types and shadows of an actual temple and animal sacrifice, when their whole purpose was to point to the True Temple, and the True Sacrifice? Isn't that what the Book of Hebrews is talking about? In fact Hebrews chapter 10 condemns anyone that would leave the True and Final Sacrifice of God's Son, and go back to the types and the shadows of Old Covenant.
Has God forsaken Israel? Absolutely not! Look at the Apostle Paul, he is in Christ. He has received the Promise God gave to Abraham. Look Dr. Michael Brown, he is in Christ. He has received the Promise God gave to Abraham.
The True Land. The True Promised Land....is Christ! God has fulfilled His Covenant Promises. He cannot lie. Any Jewish man or woman who is in Christ has received the fulfillment of that Promise!
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| | 2007/2/27 10:36 | |
| | Re: | | I hate to sound like a broken record... but the Word of Faith Movement borrows a lot from "replacement theology". While they do not adhere to "replacement theology" persay, the WOF'ers do claim the promises God made to Israel, and believe that those promises are for the Christian.
They are not. Some of the principles apply to us (honor your parents so that your days may be many, etc). But the promises made in the Law were made to the Jew. Not Christians.
This is the root of the "health & wealth" crowd. Without borrowing this from "replacement theology", the whole health & wealth doctrine would fall to pieces... as it should.
Krispy |
| | 2007/2/27 12:05 | | Psalm73
Member
Joined: 2007/2/15
Posts: 60
Arkansas
| | Pour water on the fire | | Hmm, Jesus spoke well of this in the gospel of mark chapter 7 verses 5-13. But for times sake, and the sake of the evangel, we must preach today. This is a perfect way to cut down every tradition of men. (I mean the 1534 N.T with 1525 tdale variants)
Mark 7:11-13: But ye say; a man shall say to his father or mother corban; that is, whatsoever thing I offer, that same doth profit thee.
12 And ye suffer no more that a man do anything for his father or mother.
13 Thus ye have made the commandment of God of none effect, through your own tradicions which ye have ordayned.
America follows after preachers who are none that doeth good, no not one. From romans 3:12-18 and there was no fear of God before their eyes.
So speak ye, so do, as they that are judged according to the law of liberty. Iames 2:12 (K.J
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Terry L Merritt
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| | 2007/2/27 12:14 | Profile | iansmith
Member
Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL
| | Re: | | Krispy, what do you think about Charles Finney's work in the Oberlin Evangelist on the Promises of God (which was compiled into The Promise of The Spirit later, and was a favorite book of Keith Green and Leonard Ravenhill).
I'll specifically reference this [url=http://www.gospeltruth.net/1839OE/390717_the_promises_5.htm]lecture[/url].
Quote:
[b]Some of the reasons why the promises are not fulfilled in and to us.[/b]
6. Again, we do not receive them as belonging to us, as in the case that I have mentioned, where one supposed that the promise of the New Testament was made only to the Jews. Now multitudes seem never to have understood the promises made to individuals and to the Church under the Old Covenant, as belonging still more emphatically to the Church and to individuals under the Christian dispensation. They seem entirely to have overlooked the fact that Christ and his apostles always treated the promises of the Old Testament, as more emphatically belonging to Christians under the New dispensation. Now here is a sufficient reason for their not receiving the fulfillment of the promises, that they do not understand them as made to themselves. Consequently they do not believe nor apply them.
Do you think that Zac Poonen and Leonard Ravenhill are heavy into Replacement Theology?
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Ian Smith
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| | 2007/2/27 12:21 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Ian... give me some time to review this, and I'll comment at a later time, ok?
Krispy |
| | 2007/2/27 13:55 | |
| | Sister Dorcas | | this will probably be the second to last post I make for a while, I explain that in my next post in the ATF thread, but you asked:
Quote:
but, just why would you want to be in Israel for a war?
I didnt say I would want to be, its just that if America someday goes the way of Germany circa 1923-1933, a Jew has a homeland to return to, rather than be rounded up and slaughtered like sheep.
and secondly, if it ever came to that, given my background in military intelligence and analysis, I might have something to offer.
But as far as going overseas is concerned I find myself drawn to either Korea or Rwanda.(most probably Korea, North Korea, when the pharoah is gone) The Lord has not yet given me release on this yet.
love, neil |
| | 2007/2/27 15:50 | |
| | Re: replacement theology | | Re Sister Dorcas
Neil,
Thank you. I now see what you are getting at. You know, I have terrible trouble understanding the level of anti-semetism which your perceive, as it really is foreign to my experience, apart from what happened in Nigeria when I was a teen, when one tribe was singled out for extinction.
The genocide in Biafra happened when my father was out there, with the war front crossing back and forward over the part where he worked - British bombs being dropped on his red cross-marked hospital buildings. I had the privilege to meet a young woman years afterward in the UK, who'd been one of those surgical patients, whose aunt, the anaesthetic nurse (as it happened), had stayed to give her oxygen while she was unconscious till a raid was over. Sometimes the staff had no choice but to leave the hospital to the enemy, as it advanced again. Over one period of weeks, 30,000 people a day were dying of starvation, despite the involvement of very able aid agencies. It was because of the mis-reporting of all this, that Fredrick Forsyth (whose news reports were being thrown in the bin), gave up journalism and became a novelist.
Also, many years ago in this country, I met a shining Christian nurse, who was North Korean but married to a Brit. She tried to explain to me what it was like at home, but this has begun to make sense only since coming to SI. Amazing how such an incident (one meeting) should have made such an impression on me, and I can still remember her face and smile, while many many other 'one meeting's have completely faded from memory. So, regarding the call you feel to Rwanda, or North Korea, I think I understand.
You know, you have a Korean couple leading one of the Salvation Army corps in Chicago.... maybe not to far for you to slip along and meet them? 8-)
Isn't it awesome that Diane has such a testimony of her family giving their lives to help Jews during WW2? I do hope you may acknowledge this when you have time to post, next. :-D Linn
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| | 2007/2/28 8:49 | | mom23beagles
Member
Joined: 2007/2/25
Posts: 55
Appleton, Wisconsin, USA
| | Re: | | Quote:
I do wonder about the Dr. Browns claim that true born-again spirit-filled Christians are becoming more and more anti-Semitic. I wonder how he arrives at this conclusion. Certainly in my own experience I see quite the opposite even in our complacent churches. I see so much caution extended towards the Jews that sometimes I wonder if they are regarded as beyond needing salvation. After all they ARE Gods chosen people. To me it is not love to view anyone as not needing to experience Gods salvation and grace.
I couldn't agree with this more, I'm just listening to the message right now so might have more to say later. I have been attending mainstream Christian churches since I was in the womb, and have never heard one word against the Jews, or that they didn't deserve salvation, or anything remotely resembling anti-Semitism. In fact, quite the opposite. We were taught to reach out to the Jews, pray for the peace of Jerusalem, etc. Just my $0.03 (inflation taken into account. :-) ) |
| | 2007/3/5 2:18 | Profile | philologos
Member
Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK
| | Re: ginnyrose | | Quote:
Quote:
Have you encountered this theology personally?
yes, right here on this forum.
He means me!
_________________
Ron Bailey
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| | 2007/3/6 5:00 | Profile |
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