SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
See Opportunities to Serve with SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : General Topics : Healing

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 Next Page )

Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas


The original use of the word "bitterness" may have been an accusation, but only, I think, because you came over as so aggressive in your responses to those you disagreed with. (Which was probably why you "got two or three guys attacking you" - they probably felt you were attacking them!)

Well, if I'm not mistaken, another guy, krispy or somebody accused me of being bitter and spreading poisonous doctrine.

So I guess their windows were rattling after talking to me about all this.

In all honesty, I don't even remember when you accused me of anything. I'd have to go back and check. But I really don't see the point in that.

Benjamin Williams

 2007/2/26 16:03Profile



BenWilliams wrote:
This is not my full reply, but it is something for you to think about, especially with regard to those who have been chronically ill. The illness becomes part of their identity. They may have trouble parting with aspects of that identity - parting with their neediness. In these cases, there has to be a willingness to repent of not being willing to be changed, to repent of wanting to keep the pain.

This is an interesting concept, one I have toyed with before in my mind. Just to think that someone would rather be sick or disabled, than to be healed is completely unthinkable to me as you said.

Even the slightest cold or anything, and I am already going to God for healing, making sure my conscience is clear before God. And praying for the healing till I get better. Much less if something serious ever happened to me.

I can understand it only too well (been there).

One reason is, as Dorcas said, that long-term sickness can become "part of" the person. Another reason is that if you are sick no-one can demand you to do anything you don't feel like doing! You have less responsibility, fewer demands on you. People make allowances and don't expect too much.

A sick person also gets more attention and sympathy.

Even the symptoms of a common cold may be exaggerated, either to get attention, or as an excuse for not putting in one's best work, or going to a party or something you basically don't [i]want[/i] to do.

Believe me, I've done it!

Remember Jesus asked the man at the pool of Bethsaida, "Do you [i][b]want[/b][/i] to be healed".

But please don't go accusing anyone who doesn't seem to be healed of not wanting to be - that's nearly as bad as accusing them of unbelief!

Unless of course they do [i]need[/i] to hear it at that point, and are ready to accept the challenge and repent!



 2007/2/26 16:26

 Re: Healing begins with mending the soul!

Just remembered a couple of personal examples when I wasn't healed straight away when someone prayed, but something much more than physical healing was done.

One was when I had toothache on the weekend, when you couldn't get a dentist at all. The strongest painkillers available without prescription, didn't seem to touch the pain.

I decided to call on a friend, to ask her to pray for me.

She asked me to have tea with her, but I said I was in too much pain to eat. So she said, "OK, I'll pray for you first, then we'll have tea."

She prayed for me and my [i]self-pity[/i] vanished instantly!

I still had toothache (eventually had to have that tooth out), but happily munched my way through a salad (carefully chewing on the good side!)and was even able to sleep that night.

The other example was having a cough that just wouldn't go away. Again I felt very sorry for myself, and asked friends to pray for me. I knew the Lord was saying "you are healed", yet I was still coughing as bad as ever.

The next morning I woke up like a lark instead of dragging myself out of bed late because of "not feeling well".

The cough took another couple of weeks to completely disappear, but it didn't matter any more.

I asked the two brothers who had prayed for me because it just didn't make sense. One very wise man explained that the Enemy tries all ways to spoil the relationship between us and the Lord. Sometimes he uses sickness.

Healing [i]begins[/i] with restoring that relationship with the Lord. Often it spills out into the body and results in physical healing, but not always (here you will disagree, Ben). But its restoring of spiritual fellowship that is the [i]really[/i] important part of healing.


 2007/2/26 16:43

Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 139


edit please dont respond if u did read it..thks


 2007/2/26 20:21Profile

 Re: Healing

Good morning, Ben :-)

Thanks for answering my thoughts so far.

Here are scriptures that back up my suggestion of asking the Lord first what to pray for a person, before telling them what you expect the Lord to do.

John 5:19 - 21
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, [u]The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do[/u]: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

John 12:49, 50
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

John 7:17, 18 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or I speak of myself. He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Ben, there are a few more like these, but the message is clear, I believe, that Jesus waited on His Father for each healing and miracle.

I believe the basis of the healing 'word' is the prophetic word, although I'd never seen it so clearly until I posted in a recent thread on the subject.

Don't mix this up with a 'word of prophecy' to the church, though... that's not what I mean.


I mean simply that one receives from God the knowledge of what He wants to do for a person, and then one prays for that - nothing more (or less - still takes faith!) and rests in Him to bring it to pass in due time.

I sometimes tell people to give a prayer three days (in the tomb) to bring forth a tangible result in their experience. This helps both me and the other person, to wait in expectation. But often, the Lord makes the answer palpable sooner.

In a different thread, The Spirit of Prophecy which KingJimmy started in the Lounge, philologos makes the point that to be able to testify to Jesus, one has to have seen or heard Him.

I believe this is why one should wait on Him, before passing the word on to the person for whom you are going to pray. You may be led [i]not[/i] to pass on that word, but, it will have made all the difference to how you prayed and what you are expecting the Lord to do.

 2007/2/27 10:54

Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas


Hey Dorcas,

In response to what you said in your last post let me say this:

I try my best to wait upon the Lord, but I believe there are occasions where the Lord will not tell us which one of the forty people to pray for first in a service.

You see its kinda like this: If you are a parent, once you teach your child how to do something the right way, (the way you would do it) you don't want to tell them each time they do it how it needs to be done, you expect that they will be mature and take care of it just fine, and then as they mature even more, they will do it without even being told. It becomes a relationship of trust, rather than one of always being told what to do.

For further example, the Lord doesn't come tell you how to tell the truth anymore, because He has already taught you how. So you walk in authority in that area. I hope this is clear what I'm trying to say.

So in those situations where forty people need healing, want healing, I believe we should be as sensitive as possible to the Spirit, but I have been in those situations enough to know that the Lord does not always tell me what to do. He waits to see what I will do because He has already instructed me beforehand.

A well documented example would be of Smith Wigglesworth. (I know his stuff pretty well, so I generally use him a lot.) He used to say that "if he came into a meeting, and the Spirit wasn't doing anything, he would preach louder, and if the Spirit still wasn't doing anything he would start yelling, and he said he would keep at that until the Spirit started moving."

Not that we need to all start yelling until something happens, the point is that the Spirit was waiting on Smith to do something, and [b]I believe that one of the main reasons that we do not see more power in the church is because we are waiting on the Spirit, and the Spirit is waiting on us.[/b] So I believe it is an absolute necessity that we act, and when we do, the Lord will back it up with power.

[b]In the scriptures, you don't see where the disciples saw a lame man, and then they stopped, prayed to the Lord for guidance about how to pray for the lame man, and then approached him and prayed. I believe that is because they simply acted, they already knew the will of God concerning healing. So they were always ready.[/b]

Any thoughts on that? Sorry it was long.

Benjamin Williams

 2007/2/27 12:12Profile

Joined: 2006/11/7
Posts: 1178


[color=6600CC]Jam 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:[/color]

[color=6600CC]Jam 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.[/color]

We need to take this scripture for what it says. Is any sick, how many? Any! We don't need to pray about what God has promised.

We need to pray about who we aproach, however if we call on the elders as written above, we can stand on this word. I believe we just don't understand it means what it says. Jesus still heals those who come to Him today to receive the prayer of faith through is ministers who believe.

These signs will follow those who believe they will follow.


 2007/2/27 13:44Profile

Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas


Amen Goldminer

Benjamin Williams

 2007/2/27 13:56Profile

 Re: the Word of healing

Psalm 107 gives various examples of those the Lord helped. Especially:

[color=000099][i]17 Fools, obecause of their transgression,
And because of their iniquities, were afflicted.
18 Their soul abhorred all manner of food,
And they drew near to the gates of death.
19 Then they cried out to the Lord in their trouble,
And He saved them out of their distresses.
20 [b]He sent His word and healed them,[/b]
And tdelivered them from their destructions.
21 Oh, that men would give thanks to the Lord for His goodness,
And for His wonderful works to the children of men!
22 Let them sacrifice the sacrifices of thanksgiving,
And declare His works with rejoicing."[/i][/color]
(The New King James Version.)

This is of course an example of those who are sick because of their sin; but I still maintain that you can't generalise in this matter.


 2007/2/27 14:58

 Re: Healing

Hi Ben,

I'm not sure if you read my post through, particularly the scriptures, because you seem to be saying here that you'd rather take the example of how humans teach their children than how the Father taught His Child.

You see its kinda like this: If you are a parent, once you teach your child how to do something the right way, (the way you would do it) you don't want to tell them each time they do it how it needs to be done, you expect that they will be mature and take care of it just fine, and then as they mature even more, they will do it without even being told. It becomes a relationship of trust, rather than one of always being told what to do.

I know you are not just chucking an opinion at me that you haven't thought about, and I'm not returning a shallow one to you either. I don't have experience of beginning to pray for forty people, but I've learned when I pray for anyone (and not just for healing), to wait on the Lord first, and simply pray what He gives me. He has never failed to give me something particular. This includes the times He has put it in my heart to pray for what is probably closer to a miracle than a healing.

I would rather follow Jesus' example of waiting on my Father each time.

And, I honestly believe that if you try doing it this way, the faith will be there for you and the other person, for what He wants to give. This way, we keep in step with Him.

 2007/2/28 16:20

Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy