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tjservant
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Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Would you use the word hell? (Please Help)

How would you describe Jesus’ suffering when His Father forsook him?


God bless

TJ


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TJ

 2007/2/2 17:29Profile
allhavsinned
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Joined: 2005/8/1
Posts: 201
North West England

 Re: Would you use the word hell?

If Hell is to be absent from the Father, then that's what happened to Jesus.

We all deserve Hell; He took our punishment and what we deserved on Himself.

I think if we truly understood what happened at the cross (and I don't understand fully), we would be totally awestruck and humbled. It's one thing to believe something, another to know it.


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Ste

 2007/2/2 18:03Profile
roaringlamb
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

But who says that hell is to be out of God's prescence? or separated from Him?
Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and [b]he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:[/b]
Psalms 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: [b]if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.[/b]


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patrick heaviside

 2007/2/2 18:15Profile
tjservant
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Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re: Would you use the word hell?

Jesus took my punishment. I deserved hell. Is it safe to say Jesus experienced hell?

God Bless

TJ


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TJ

 2007/2/3 8:27Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Quote:
Jesus took my punishment. I deserved hell. Is it safe to say Jesus experienced hell?



Several things to think about:

1) Is it possible for a person living in the flesh to be in Hell and alive at the same time? Is not Hell eternal death meaning that if a person is alive, they are not dead?

2) Hell is a place of eternal torture for people who commit blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, the unforgivable sin. To commit such a blasphemy is to declare that one is greater than God, in other words, to reject Jesus Christ. Jesus died for everyone's sin, and to reject this is the same as saying, "I don't need forgiveness." Jesus came to save sinners, not those who think they are good enough. (ie. those who think they are God.)

However, Jesus is God. So, is it possible for Jesus to commit blasphemy?

3) Indeed, Christ traded places with us. He payed our debt. When we defied God's Word by sinning, we committed an eternal crime worthy of Hell. We deserve an eternal punishment.

However, the flesh of Jesus was eternal life. In John 6:51-57, Jesus makes it clear that His flesh as the Son of Man gives eternal life. Jesus had no sin, and thus, was not doomed to die like everyone else. He had eternal life.

Therefore, the death of Jesus who had eternal life paid off the eternal debt we had acquired. When Jesus died, the debt of sin was paid. That is why Jesus said, "It is finished," just before He died.

Therefore, Jesus at no time went to Hell. If Jesus had gone to Hell, the death of His life would not have been enough to pay the debt.

Because the debt was paid, and the balance came to zero, Jesus could then be raised. The minute Christ died, it was finished. Sin had been defeated. So, Jesus could be raised to new life.

4) Jesus was forsaken on the cross to the extent of death. He had eternal life and no reason to die. However, He was forsaken unto death. (If you notice, Jesus made that comment shortly before death). However, was Jesus forsaken in death? Did the Father allow Jesus to rot in the grave?

5) Jesus was forsaken on the cross by everyone and everything. No one came to His aid. No one helped Him. He died a sinners death. However, Jesus was without sin. At no moment was Jesus ever filled with sin. If He were, then how could He pay our debt at the moment of His death?

These are some things to consider.
Hopefully they will help.

In Christ with love,
Blake


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Blake Kidney

 2007/2/3 9:28Profile
letsgetbusy
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Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re:

This is an interesting subject. I take it that when Jesus "gave up the ghost", He then first descended into hell for 3 days, and then came back to earth for 40 days having the keys to hell and death, and then ascended into heaven.

Eph 4:9-10 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Jesus didn't descend into hell to suffer, He descended to preach to the captives, and to pick up the keys which He then takes and gives to the angels who show up in Revelation. I would not say that Jesus experienced hell as the damned do, and He didn't go to hell to complete the payment for sin, as this was finished on the cross, but He did descend into hell immediately after the cross to "fill all things", to fulfill the Scriptures.

His burial, descent, resurrection, and ascension are a foreshadowing of the first resurrection of the saints, which He was the "firstfruits" among all His brethren.

Rom 8:29b that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

1 Cor 23:15b Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Rev 20:6a Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power


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Hal Bachman

 2007/2/4 23:55Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re: Would you use the word hell? (Please Help)

I was hoping for more input. This is something I have tried to understand for some time. Can anyone add some info?

Thank you to those that have already responded.

God bless

TJ


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TJ

 2007/2/6 14:25Profile
JaySaved
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Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

I agree with letsgetbusy.

 2007/2/6 14:38Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:


How would you describe Jesus’ suffering when His Father forsook him?

God bless

TJ


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TJ

 2007/2/6 14:42Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Quote:
He then first descended into hell for 3 days,



Luke 23:43
Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."


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Blake Kidney

 2007/2/6 15:03Profile





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