I understand how looking at the church from the natural eyes would appear to point to money, but thats kinda simplistic. I personally believe that the problem goes deeper than that. I believe that most pulpits are the problem and that the cause of that problem can be many sided. Here's what I mean, In church "A" there could be an ambitiuos pastor who sees people and the offerings they bring as a means to an end. So he institutes a user friendly church. This church would be money, maybe ambition, pride??? Greed? But in church "B" there's an elder who has much influence and has limited the direction and vision of the church. Here we have a power struggle among other things. Get where I'm going? Each church is different, The bottom line is that God the Holy Spirit wll not go where He is not welcome and He will not lead by force because He's so, so meek. Jesus said "and I , if I [b] be [/b] lifted up", it's our responsibility to do the lifting. I believe that the individuals in the body can pray an change everything.

As to America, America isn't going to see a sweeping national revival that transforms all of society. America will see pockets of revival one town or city or portions of a city at a time. Prehaps even an entire state, but I doubt that, unless it's a smaller populated state, like say S.Dakota. I know that that runs counter to everything all the prophets are saying across the land, and I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

:-(

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D.Miller

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Ron Bailey

Dear RobertW,

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Christopher Joel Dandrow

Hi Chris,

This passage is an interesting reminder of the events in which Lot and his family were carried off by the Kings in Genesis 14. I wonder if sometimes folk misinterpret God's goodness when He comes to their rescue in the midst of calamity? See how quickly Lot returned to Sodom with almost no compunction of conscience? He 'lingered' also when judgment was looming over the city. When asked to go to the mountain he begged to go to Zoar ('little'). His wife was killed and yet he [u]still[/u] went to Zoar. The man simply could not turn loose of his compromise.

But when Pharaoh [u]saw that there was relief[/u], he hardened his heart and did not listen to them, as the LORD had said. (Exodus 8:15 NASB)

This is the attitude that is so often recorded in scripture. And the question comes to this, are we 'Abraham's' or are we 'Lot's'? Abraham needed no such judgments and dangers to follow hard after God. He responded rightly to the word of the Lord. He made some mistakes and suffered from his little bit of Egypt also that he brought up from there when he mistepped into that land (Hagar). Noone who takes hold of even a little Egypt (as fire into the bosom) can walk away not having been burned (as it were). Hagar, Abraham's portion of Egypt, in the camp caused much grief. Tremendous lessons here.

I think that we need to preach the word of God with power. I think that the word of God preached with great unction has the greatest chance of changing people than anything. Not everyone is going to be saved. We have to come to terms with that and not get discouraged. We have to be willing at some point to allow folk to make their decision. We may grieve at their decision and even try to compel them to change their minds, but at the end of the day some folk are going to go out into eternity having rejected the Holy Ghost countless times. If folk knew hom many different means that God was employing at this moment to lead them to repentance they would be stunned.

Peter wanted to call fire down from heaven, but this was not the Spirit of our dispensation. The Holy Ghost is dealing deeply with folk. And we as ministers need to spend time in prayer and in the word of God and come away with a message that is sharper than any too edged sword. Not trying to be cute or any such thing. We need the full on revelation of the word of God brought to bear upon the hearts and minds of men- because it is the word of God that is able to save our immortal souls (James 1:21). Anything else is of limited use and we must not rely or wait on them.

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Robert Wurtz II

I do believe it is apropriate to identify in repentance for the nation we live in, if only for the reason that had we fasted and interceded more the climate it might be much different. How seriously have we taken abortion, perversion, pornography, materialism, etc. etc.? To the point of grieving unto pouring out our lives to see a change? We have responsibility in all this. I dare to say, although I know there are those who bear these burdens, that the majority of the church is caught up in the materialism and excess and has not taken our responsibility seriously, myself included. Therefore we should repent for the condition and culture of our nation. Many of us have been asleep on our watch and the digression of morals is because folks don't stand up and push - Pray until something happens.

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KLC

RobertW. That is an amazing word. I intend to share this with my email list. Excellent.

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KLC

Dear JaySaved,

Andrew Strom has a web sit that has his articles on it:

www.revivalschool.com

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KLC

Bro. Strom ...

When you post your threads and ask for "comments", does this mean that you're only interested in this aspect and have no intention of fielding questions?

If so i guess it's your prerogative, but i've found from personal experience that tackling the questions is oftentimes our Lord's place of refinement and drawing out and/or forward for me (especially those asked by bro philologos) ...

Our Lord spoke in my spirit a little while back that He'd not brought me to SI Forum to teach anybody anything (which was a real ego checker for me), but to teach me thru SI Forum ... In tackling the questions i have learned much more than i ever could just by reading comments ...

i for one would love to hear your answers, instead of suppositions on what you've posted by others ...

Lord bless you bro Strom ...

Bro R

Hi Goldminer,

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Robert Wurtz II