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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777

 Re: What promise do we rest our faith in

I listened to K Daniel’s sermon and a few thoughts came to mind. Firstly, the more I hear and read about revival/restoration/reformation, the more I realize how little I understand all this. Oh, yes, I know that revival is a big move of God when people turn back to him. But how revival should look – I have no idea. The Bible says little about it . I think that is why many grasp for understanding, using various clues in history and signs of the times. K Daniels uses the Islamic threat as a kick-off for his plea to Americans to pray and apply God’s spiritual armor. Here are some of his statements from the sermon:

We must not allow the devil to destroy this land.
The only weapon that God has that can save this country is the army of God.
God waits for us.
Christians you could turn back this land to God in days.
The only fear I have for America is that the church of God won’t get on its knees in time into warfare.
They will stop when you get down on your knees and pray [for the Muslims].
Within three months millions would turn to Christ

I have only one fear: That Christians are too proud to admit that they need to see God.
What the devil has done in 50 years so that your land faces judgments, we could undo in a few days, as the people of God on our knees in prayer.”

I don’t have to let the land be destroyed.

And in closing:
Your history is in your hands, Christians.
God is longing, it’s not God’s fault (if America is not saved).

This is a heavy-duty! Of course these words should apply to any nation – including mine, Canada. But what about China where millions of persecution-bathed Christians live a life of prayer; yet their threat has not been removed.

Daniels wisely points out that there are conditions to prayers being answered: “There’s always a condition to the promise” . If our hearts condemn us not then have we confidence…. without the wrong attitude, without doubting, without doubting
(said twice) ” At this point I was wondering: “What exactly is the “promise” that I need to rest my faith on.” If I go back to his earlier statements, I assume that the “promise” is that America will be saved IF enough of it’s citizens pray in FAITH. Daniels added: “Then what ever we ask, we will receive.”

A few questions arise:
Does God need large numbers? The history of past revivals seems to indicate that God has used the prayers of one or two people. I think of Savanrolla, Rees Howells, Father Nash, Brainard, two elderly confined ladies, etc Gideon’s army of 300 reminds me that it’s not about the might of man, not even their spirituality (Israel at that time wasn’t exactly spiritually mature).

And now I'm wondering if we are confusing America's security with revival. Are they synonymous?

Are scriptures on prayer being applied to a faulty premise?

Richard Owen Roberts has a different take (speaking of revival). He emphasizes the need of a humbling as a prerequisite, even before prayer. “If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves …” First humbling. Of course, we cannot do that very well for ourselves. It is a work of God, and often is the outcome of trying experiences. Might it be possible that true revival on a large scale might come through the large scale breakdown of national boundaries - through losses rather than victories? Can the Christians accept that as possibly from God (rather than it being their fault)?

Another question: Can any nation claim a promise that God will spare their nation if enough of them pray. The OT references applied to the theocracy of Israel, but the New Covenant Kingdom of God does not have boundaries.

Here’s one promise that we can ALL claim in faith: God, by his Spirit, is building his eternal kingdom (the Church) in which there is neither Greek nor Jew, Americans nor Canadians, nor Arabs. It is spread all over the world - and the gates of Hell cannot prevail against it!



 2007/1/12 13:34Profile

Joined: 2006/11/7
Posts: 1178


[color=6600CC]This is a heavy-duty! Of course these words should apply to any nation – including mine, Canada. But what about China where millions of persecution-bathed Christians live a life of prayer; yet their threat has not been removed.[/color]

This is a very good point. If you have never read a book called " The Heavenly Man" by Pastor Yun, you should. The church in relatively unpersecuted areas has no idea of how much other places suffer, all the while pouring out their prayers before God. They have many hours while in solitary confinement to pray. I have to think that just as Paul was in prison for his faith, that was a useful time to God to write large portions of the New Testament. God wastes nothing.

Brother Yun says that God allowed him go go back to prison at one point because he had lost his dependance on God. He also says not to pray that God will remove believers from prison but to pray God will keep them strong and faithful.

He doesn't see persecution as something to be shunned but embraced, a gift to conform us to His image.

I don't think that means we should say OK God bring diaster on us, but we should know that it rains on the just and unjust and God has said in His word that judgment will come at some point, not every christian will be spared the hard times, just as Betsy and Corrie Ten-Boom went though horrid times along with everybody around them. God's promise was true, just as it was with Bro. Yun, God never left them or forsook them. He was with them in the firey furnace.


 2007/1/12 13:53Profile

Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL


I particularly liked one passage in 'The Heavenly Man' when brother yun quiped about which seminary he attended. A western believer had asked the Chinese brother what seminary they learned at and their answer was more or less 'the one with bars on the windows.' I wish i could quote it for you exactly, but I loaned my copy of the book to someone already!

Ian Smith

 2007/1/12 15:24Profile


A western believer had asked the Chinese brother what seminary they learned at and their answer was more or less 'the one with bars on the windows.

Hahahahahaaaaa!!! Oh, the irony!!! Hallelujah Brother Yun and Brother Ian!!! This quote made my day!!!! :-P

 2007/1/12 19:14

Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: The way to stop Muslims!/ The power of Prayer - Keith Daniels

Just saw/listened to the video...

Makes me ask, should'nt we consider...

...[i]holiness to be our privilige[/i]

that above being our duty and calling?

The testimonies in this message are powerfull, especially that of brother Keith Daniel in Times Square. That is really an understatement, to say merely powerfull concerning the latter.

I am somewhat hesitant to share a testimony from my own experience of a similar nature because I do not want to in any way detract from the message of this man of God by even putting my experiences in the same context as his and others and I hope sharing them will not do that. I pray that sharing them may encourage others though.

At least two years ago, probably about three, when I was still living in Baltimore, the congregation I attended was in a time of corporate fasting and prayer. One night during this time I went outside my house to walk around and to pray and felt an unction to pray against the presence of the [i]Kingdom Hall[/i] in my neighborhood. The presence of this building in my neighborhood was always vexing to me, especially as I would drive past it. So I prayed and I distinctly remember turning in the direction of it, asking God to bring it to nothing, that is to bring [b]their work[/b], to nothing. I should emphasise here that I was carefull to keep the thought only that their [b]work[/b] would be brought to nothing, [b]asking nothing against them [u]as people[/u][/b].

Several months later, I think it was near or on Easter Sunday, after service my wife and I dropped off a young woman and her child who attended that morning and on the way back we passed the building.

On the front where it had read [i]Kingdom Hall[/i] it now read something close to, if not exactly

[b]Whosoever Will Deliverance Temple[/b]

Also, there was a so-called [i]adult[/i] store which had opened up while I lived there and every now and then I would stand in front of it and quietly pray as I did in the other case. The store was near to a bus stop that I would stand around to share the Gospel with people and sometimes I would speak to those who entered or came out.

Right before I moved away I noticed what looked like a window had been busted out and the place had been borded up. As far as I know it did not reopen, at least before I had moved away.

There was also the same kind of place that I noticed when I moved here. It was somewhere around Arch and/or Filbert streets and I prayed in the same manner as the others. It too is gone.

Who knows what other brothers and sisters had been praying these same things? And as brother Keith Daniel asks in the message, what [i][b][u]will God[/i][/b][/u], putting the strongest possible emphasis upon God because man can do nothing, what will God [i]not[/i] do and what lengths will He [i]not[/i] be willing to go to, in order to answer our prayers about the things that grieve His heart!

Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/1/14 14:27Profile

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