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GraceAlone
Member



Joined: 2006/8/23
Posts: 232
Orlando, Florida

 Re:

I don't know if you remember my old post on this so here it is...The problem started in this post is the assumption that supposedly GOD MUST ONLY command what we are able to do ourselves without his help.

[color=0000ff]Remeber when Jesus told Lazarus
John 11:43
And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.

Lazarus HAD NOT the ability in himself to raise himself from the dead- but by the grace of God by God's power he arose and obeyed the voice of Christ.[/color]

Colossians 2:19
19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.

1 Cor 3:7
So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.

Isaiah 64:7
And there is NO ONE who calls on Your name, Who stirs himself up to take hold of You; For You have hidden Your face from us, And have consumed us because of our iniquities.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, [b]as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.[/b]


First what constitutes a sin?

Point 1: You must have true faith to please God.
Proof: Hebrews 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."
Proof: John 14:6 "Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
Sub-point: Before the cross the Jews must have put thier faith in God since they were awaiting the arrival of the messiah.


Point 2: You must do all thing to His glory.
Proof: 1 Corinthians 10:31 "Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God."

Point 3: Good is in accordance with His law
Proof: Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

If a man's work is not in accordance with these points that man's work is sinful and not pleasing to God. In other words man is constantly in sin until salvation.

[color=0000ff]The Heidelberg Catechism on "But what are good works?", "Only those which are done from true faith, according to the law of God, and to His glory" (Question #91)[/color]


__________________________________________

Romans 1:29 "29 being FILLED with ALL unrighteousness"
TOTAL DEPRAVITY

I. What it IS NOT

A. Not a: Absolute depravity
i. Gen 20; Ambimelech held back from sinning by God's power
ii. 2 Thes 2:7; One who is at present restraining lawlessness is God.

B. Not a: A complete absence of realative good
i. Luke 6:33; sinners can do relatively good things.
ii. 2 Kings 10:30; You can do things in accordance to God's law yet still lack faith and not give God glory.

II. What it is

A. It is: Positively
i. only and always sining
a. Gen 6:5; 8:21; every imagination of the thoughts of man's heart being only evil continually from his youth.
b. Jer 17:9; the heart is desperately wicked above all things.
c. Psalm 51:5; We are concieved in pollution
d. Romans 3:10-18; There is no one who does good.

B. It is: Negatively
i. total inability
a. man cannot do the good
(i) Matthew 7:17-18; Christ says a bad tree bears bad fruit and cannot bear good fruit.
(ii) 1 Cor 12:3; Only by the spirit can somebody submit to Jesus as Lord.
(iii) John 15:4-5; You cannot bear fruit apart from Christ.
(iv) Romans 8:7-8; in the flesh you cannot please God and the carnal mind is hostile toward God and cannot be subject to God's law
b. man cannot understand the good
(i) Acts 16:14; only after God gave Lydia an open heart to give heed to Paul.
(ii) Eph 4:18; understanding is darkened
(iii) 2 Cor 3:12-18; a veil over thier hearts.
(iv) John 1:5; darkness doesn't comprehend the light.
(v) John 8:43; They cannot understand because they are not able.
(vi) Matthew 13:14; Hearing they will never understand.
(vii) 1 Cor 1:18, 21; 2:4; without the spirit a man cannot understand the things of God.
c. man cannot desire the good
(i) Matthew 7:18 They are unable by nature.
(ii) John 3:3; 6:44-55; 8:43; 15:4-5; They cannot and are unable.
(iii) Ezeikiel 11:19; heart of stone
(iv) 2 Cor 5:17; Gal 6:15; must be a new creation.
(v) Col 2:13; Dead in sins.
(vi) Eph 2:1, 5; Dead in sins.

III. What it does

A. It gives God glory for all His work
i. We thank Him for His grace in the giving of Christ and our faith resulting in our justification.
a. Philippians 2:13 "for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose."
b. Philippians 1:6 "being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ"

When it comes to "depravity" support comes from John Calvin, Luther, Spurgeon, Edwards, Warfield, Gerstner, Sproul, Piper, Whitefield, MacArthur, Brunner (and lots more) for it.

(ref) Romans 5:10; 1 Cor 1:21; Heb 11:6; 1 Cor 2:14; Rom 14:23; John 1:13; 2 Peter 2:14; Romans 5:12-19; John 6:44; Romans 5:6; 8:7; Titus 3:3-5; Romans 7:15,18,19,21,23; Matthew 19:17; Matthew 19:26; 2 Chronicles 6:36; Genesis 8:21; Jeremiah 6:13; 8:10; 9; 25:5; 26:3; 2 Chronicles 6:36; John 3:20; Galatians 3:10; 1 John 1:8; John 8:44; Isaiah 64:6; John 5:40


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Kristy

 2006/12/26 18:17Profile
EVAVGELIST
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Joined: 2006/11/23
Posts: 113
PERRIS CA

 Re:

Quote:
Lazarus HAD NOT the ability in himself to raise himself from the dead- but by the grace of God by God's power he arose and obeyed the voice of Christ.



I like it, never saw that.
Quote:
When it comes to

"depravity" support comes from John Calvin, Luther, Spurgeon, Edwards, Warfield, Gerstner, Sproul, Piper, MacArthur, Brunner (and lots more) for it.



You could have put me in the list if you wanted.

Just kidding,

Good thoughts, Josh


_________________
JOSHUA MEYERS

 2006/12/26 21:08Profile









 Re:

I just came across this quote and think it is very telling:

Quote:
"The word gospel means good news. That which is preached as gospel in so many churches is not even news. A man has been found guilty, shall we say, of a heinous crime and has been sentenced to death. He is now in prison, awaiting the day of his execution. A friend comes to visit him. This friend calls out: "I have good news for you!" Eagerly the condemned man asks: "What is it?" The answer comes: "Be good." In that message there is not so much as a shred of good news. It is most cruel mockery. Yet many a self-styled minister of Christ holds forth to sinners under the sentence of eternal death a precisely equivalent message as gospel."



R. B. Kuiper

 2006/12/26 21:45
GraceAlone
Member



Joined: 2006/8/23
Posts: 232
Orlando, Florida

 Re:

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.


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Kristy

 2006/12/27 20:28Profile
EVAVGELIST
Member



Joined: 2006/11/23
Posts: 113
PERRIS CA

 Re:

Quote:
For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.



My question is this; As God has dealt to each one a measure of faith. Who is the each one in the context? Look back to the “to everyone among you” would you say this is talking to the Christians/Romans? Or does the each one apply to all man kind? And if it applies to all man kind do you think that some measures of faith do not have the ability to produce salvation?


Josh


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JOSHUA MEYERS

 2006/12/30 18:30Profile
andres
Member



Joined: 2005/6/17
Posts: 285
texas,brownsville

 Re:

i think Paul is talking to the church. because in the next verse he talks about being members in one body.


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andy

 2006/12/30 19:57Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: The delusion of trust in humanity

Quote:
"The word gospel means good news. That which is preached as gospel in so many churches is not even news. A man has been found guilty, shall we say, of a heinous crime and has been sentenced to death. He is now in prison, awaiting the day of his execution. A friend comes to visit him. This friend calls out: "I have good news for you!" Eagerly the condemned man asks: "What is it?" The answer comes: "Be good." In that message there is not so much as a shred of good news. It is most cruel mockery. Yet many a self-styled minister of Christ holds forth to sinners under the sentence of eternal death a precisely equivalent message as gospel."



Wow!
If there’s to be something from SI that I will never forget, I suspect (and hope) that it is this quote. Thank you Mahoney!

I add another quote to yours, one I read recently:

“Remember, you can only share what is truly yours.”

In other words, if the Gospel is not Good News to us personally, we simply CANNOT give it. To the extent that we are still relying on even a thread of our own ability, the Good News will be, at best, merely okay news, or, as your quote says, “not even news”. There is only one reason why preachers fail to communicate the GOOD News: They don’t have it.

We may attend all the witnessing classes we want, and learn all the means of sharing the Gospel - but if it is not yet ours, then we simply won’t be convincing to anyone else. And all our proselytizing will merely be pitiful attempts at polishing the “outer cup” of other lives, as well as our own.

Until we encounter our own total depravity, our total INABILITY to please God, and redeem ourselves, we will have nothing to offer anyone else, no matter how eloquent we speak of divine truths.

There is no worse affront to the price paid for the Good News, than our own deluded trust in human ability.

Right now I am reading the first few chapters in Acts - with wide-eyed wonder, as always. Now THERE were people who KNEW just how good the news really was.

"...they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Christ." Acts 5:42

Diane



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Diane

 2006/12/31 1:45Profile
GraceAlone
Member



Joined: 2006/8/23
Posts: 232
Orlando, Florida

 Re:

Glory to God for giving us liberty.


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Kristy

 2007/1/8 10:05Profile





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