| Poster | Thread | andres
Member
Joined: 2005/6/17
Posts: 285
texas,brownsville
| | Re: | | Did Adam or his descendants lose the ability to obey God after Adam's sin?
very good question..
And the answer biblically is a resounding YES.. Natural Man does not possess the capabilities to obey God and does not have the nominal desire to obey his will.. Why would any natural man want to submit to God? . Why would any natural man want to love God in submission when he truly hates God in rebellion? Natural man does have a free choice to choose God but his choice will be always to deny God.. Why ? because his heart is evil..
But God in his Loving GRACE rips a Natural mans heart out and places a new heart
Christs heart. A heart that now loves his Father , and believes to salvation.
Read Rom. 1-18-20. the state of fallen or natural man
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andy
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|  2006/12/22 15:56 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Amen!
Also, if it is true that we are all condemned and corrupt in Adam...if that is where all men begin, then any attempt at obedience in that state would be as Isaiah declares, "filthy rags".
At best, it is imperfect obedience, and the law requires...demands, perfect obedience! |
| | 2006/12/22 16:25 | | RobertW
Member
Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: | | Quote:
But God in his Loving GRACE rips a Natural mans heart out and places a new heart
Christs heart. A heart that now loves his Father , and believes to salvation.
But does God do this in spite of man's decision to respond or [i]because[/i] he/she responded rightly to Him?
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Robert Wurtz II
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| | 2006/12/22 16:48 | Profile | andres
Member
Joined: 2005/6/17
Posts: 285
texas,brownsville
| | Re: | | another great question.
before salvation mens hearts are evil, but then for a few a change of heart and mind takes over and a man submits to his maker, this change comes from God. thats what grace is, that God decides to save a man even if he has done nothing right or holy towards God.
must go , takening my wife out
love you
andy
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andy
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| | 2006/12/22 16:54 | Profile | RobertW
Member
Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: | | Quote:
...then any attempt at obedience in that state would be as Isaiah declares, "filthy rags".
At best, it is imperfect obedience, and the law requires...demands, perfect obedience!
All our righteousness is as filthy rags. There is none righteous- no not one. But we have to be careful here. If we believe God asked man to do the impossible then he/she is not reponsible for their sins. If a man asked his young son to lift a 100lb sack and spanked him when he could only lift 50lbs what would we say of that? Man is born a sinnerI agree, but not in such a way that he is not responsible for his actions.
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Robert Wurtz II
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| | 2006/12/22 16:54 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
If we believe God asked man to do the impossible then he/she is not responsible for their sins. If a man asked his young son to lift a 100lb sack and spanked him when he could only lift 50lbs what would we say of that? Man is born a sinnerI agree, but not in such a way that he is not responsible for his actions.
According to Romans 5, we are guilty in Adam. Because of his disobedience sin and death entered the world. We were not only corrupted by Adam's disobedience, but we were in Adam and therefore we disobeyed with Adam. We were shapen in iniquity. All men are born under the judgment of God. The evidence of that corruption is revealed, of course, in our own rebellious hearts.
The law (The Commands of God) was given so that Sin may abound. So that men might be convinced of their corrupt state in which they are born. The law was given so that men might be convinced that they are not righteous. When the law was given to Israel, at Sinai, they had already disobeyed it.
Moreover, in Romans 5, Paul also states that death reigned from Adam to Moses, at a time when there was no law. There was no law, and therefore, no sin could be imputed to any of earth's inhabitants. (Sin can not be imputed where there is no law!) Nevertheless, death reigned. The whole world was still under the judgment of God even though they did not sin like Adam.
By one man's disobedience sin and death entered the world!
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| | 2006/12/22 17:34 | |
| | Re: | | The works were finished from the foundation of the world.
The book of Hebrews says that the Gospel was preached to Israel, but it did not profit them because it was not mixed with faith.
They were promised a land flowing with milk and honey. A land with vineyards they did not plant, fields they did not cultivate, and homes they did not build, etc.
They were being given a gift by God, but only two men from the generation were able to inherit it. The rest of them just did not believe God. Therefore, they were not able to enter into God's rest.
We have been given a promise. We have been given a righteousness that is not ours. We have been given a new identity, a new past, a new present and new future. We have been given an inheritance that is incorruptible. We have been given authority. We have been given all things in Christ. We have been given "Good News. The Gospel
We have been given a promise, but it will not profit us unless we believe it. We will not enter into God's rest unless we believe the promise. We will not enter into God's rest until we cease from our own works, as he did from His.
IT IS FINISHED!
So if you are trusting in your surrendered life, put it away!
If you are trusting in your ministry, put it away!
If you are trusting in your prayer life, put it away!
If you are trusting in your love for God, put it away!
If you are trusting in your love for people, put it away!
If you are trusting in your zeal for God's house, put it away!
Start at the promise. Seek His righteousness first and then all those things will be added unto you.
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| | 2006/12/22 17:55 | | andres
Member
Joined: 2005/6/17
Posts: 285
texas,brownsville
| | Re: | | "We have been given a promise. We have been given a righteousness that is not ours. We have been given a new identity, a new past, a new present and new future. We have been given an inheritance that is incorruptible. We have been given authority. We have been given all things in Christ. We have been given "Good News. The Gospel"
amen, and amen again
the work was done all BY CHRIST.. and now God makes us partakers with christ's victories...
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andy
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| | 2006/12/22 22:08 | Profile | EVAVGELIST
Member
Joined: 2006/11/23
Posts: 113
PERRIS CA
| | Re: Ability or Inability? | | This whole question rises up Calvinistic thoughts and I dont think you want to discuss them?
> Mk 12:30 - "And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment."
Are you saying man has the ability to love God apart from God initiating the cause?
Our love is a reaction to Gods action.
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
>He does not ask you to love him with a heart that you don't have, or a soul that you don't have, or a mind that you don't have, or a strength that you don't have. But rather that God requires you to love him with all that you already possess.
Are you saying God will not command you to do something you do not have the ability to do?
Well lets ask Moses. Moses! Yes Can we ask you a question? Sure Did God give you all some commandments they you all did not have the ability to keep? OH HUNDREDS OF THEM Thanks for your insights Moses.
Josh
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JOSHUA MEYERS
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| | 2006/12/25 4:48 | Profile |
| | Re: Ability or Inability? | | Quote:
But let's look at the greatest of all commandments.
Quote:
Mr 12:30 - "And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment."
31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
I was thinking about this a little earlier today and considering how wise God is and how wonderful His ways are:
We are accepted, by, God in the Beloved.
We are in Christ who is The Son in whom the Father is well pleased, therefore, God is well pleased with us.
We are reconciled to a Holy God, by the death of His Son.
We have Peace with God!
Because of these Truths and much more, we are now actually FREE to Love God and Love people with a pure heart and pure motives. Because of what He did for us, we now have been set free to fulfill the Righteousness of the Law.
If I am seeking to Love (obey) God in order to earn favor with Him, I am not keeping the commandment.
If I am giving of myself, my time, my money, etc, to either my friends or my enemies in order to earn favor with God, I am not fulfilling the commandment.
He has adopted me into His family, and He accepts me, in Christ, as I am. I do not have to prove anything to Him. I do not have to earn His favor. I do not have to work to KEEP HIS FAVOR.
I am now FREE to Love (obey) Him.
I am now FREE to Love people for no other reason than because I want to give the Love that I have received.
I am more and more convinced by what Romans and Galatians declares:
The Law (the Two Greatest Commandments) was not given so that men might endeavor to obey it and, thus, find life in that obedience.
No, the Law (the Two Greatest Commandments) was given so that, by it, you and I might examine ourselves and become convinced that we are completely unrighteous. The Law was given so that we might come to the end of ourselves and, thus, come to the beginning of Christ!
There we would find our Peace with God.
There we would find our acceptance with God.
There we would find our security with God.
[b]And what the Law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh,[/b]God in sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh. So that the righteousness of the law could now be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.
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| | 2006/12/26 18:09 | |
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