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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Love, Hope, Faith.

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Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Love, Hope, Faith.

[b]1Thes 1:3[/b] [color=990000]Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;[/color]
[b]1Thes 5:8[/b] [color=990000]But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.[/color]
[b]Romans 8:24[/b] [color=990000]For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?[/color]
[b]Eph 2:8a[/b] [color=990000]For by grace are ye saved through faith;[/color]

[b]1Corinth 13:13[/b] [color=990000]And now abideth faith, hope, Love, these three; but the greatest of these is Love.[/color]

I am starting a new study on these three for they are tantamount here on Earth, even though Love will be eternal and the others will not be any more in heaven.

First of all, we need to know the Biblical definition of Hope.
This verse tells us Who our hope is in, [b]1Timothy 1:1[/b] [color=990000]Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Savior, and Lord Jesus Christ, [which is] our hope.[/color]
Jesus give us the hope of all thing that pertain to salvation and the Kingdom of God.

Therefore our hope is not a wish but a certainty.

When one loses hope, he becomes negligent to his own faith.

This happens when we look out from within our hope in Christ and we see no evidence of Gods moving in this physical world.
We look for these evidences for encouragment to keep fighting.
We forget that hope in things seen is not realy faith but things not seen is, furthermore, our confidence is not in our sight but by our faith.

Hope gives us courage to keep fighting the good fight against all the currants that are contrary
us because we hold to that which is sure, it is a cirtanty.

Love on the other hand is our wisdom. This Love is not of this world but from above(James 1:17, 3:15,17).
This love is from the Gosple of Christ and His Kingdome.(Romans 1:16, 1Corinth 2:4-13)

This Love is also proof of our faith (Jam 2:14-26 this verse compares to 1John 3:17)
[b]1John 3:18[/b] [color=990000]My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.[/color]

 2006/12/16 14:42Profile
MikeH
Member



Joined: 2006/9/21
Posts: 116


 Re: Love, Hope, Faith.

Quote:
Love will be eternal and the others will not be any more in heaven.

Just a quick question, why do you not expect to have faith and hope in heaven? Will we no longer trust God, and live for eternity without hope?

Mike

 2006/12/16 17:13Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:

MikeH wrote:
Quote:
Love will be eternal and the others will not be any more in heaven.

Just a quick question, why do you not expect to have faith and hope in heaven? Will we no longer trust God, and live for eternity without hope?

Mike


[b]1Corinth 13:10[/b] [color=990000]but when the perfect thing comes, then that which is in part will be caused to cease.[/color]
the "perfect" in this verse is our salvation wich is the perfected in heaven, therefore when we are in heaven Faith and hope "which is in patr" will be caused to cease.

Faith is defined as belief that is not based on physical proof.
In Heaven we will have physical proof of which we hope in here on Earth and will have no need to believe but we will know for a fact.

[b]Hebrews 11:1[/b] [color=990000]Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.[/color]
In other words faith is substantial evidence of our hope.

Faith is not substance of things that we have already and evidence of things which we already see.

 2006/12/16 17:28Profile
MikeH
Member



Joined: 2006/9/21
Posts: 116


 Re:

Thank you for taking the time to reply to me, I appreciate your answer, but perhaps you could clarify a few things. I rather like faith and hope, and I would be disappointed to have to give them up.

Quote:
1 Corinthians 13:8-9 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

The two verses before the 'perfect will come' mention prophecy, tongues, and knowledge as being the part, not faith and hope. It would seem in context that spiritual giffts will cease in heaven, it does not mention faith or hope ceasing

Of even more concern is the preceding verse which states:
Quote:
1 Corinthians 13:7 [Love] Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

Does that mean that in heaven, love will change and it no longer be able to believe or hope. If so will the other characteristics of love change? That would be scary, because God is love!

Logic wrote
Quote:
Faith is defined as belief that is not based on physical proof.

Do you have a scripture that helps with this definition of faith?

I still find it difficult to see why faith and hope will no longer exist. I could make up an artificial situation to try and illustrate the point, but I have taken the following verse from Revelation to show a picture of the tree of life producing different fruit every month. I have used the ISV version as it says they are different each month, whereas the KJV is not so clear. But this is is just an illustration, anyway.
Quote:
Revelation 22:2 Between the street of the city and the river there was the tree of life visible from both sides. It produced twelve kinds of fruit, each month having its own fruit. The leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. (International Standard Version)

Now I am in heaven sitting on my cloud playing my harp in January :-) . Do I no longer hope that we will have a different, delightfully succulent fruit in September, and do I no longer have faith that God will do this as He has promised in this verse, ie I no longer have that evidence of things hoped for? It seems this would entail a major change in my relationship with God, if I no longer trust Him and hope for more wonderful things to come throughout eternity from Him?

In 1 Cor 13v13 Paul uses a different 'now' from 1Cor 13v12, it seems to be a strong and continuing 'now' , and I read these verses as 'now' (today) we see and know in part, but then face to face, [u]now and forever[/u] we will have faith, hope and love. Have I missed the point of what Paul was trying to say?

Mike

 2006/12/17 12:28Profile
EVAVGELIST
Member



Joined: 2006/11/23
Posts: 113
PERRIS CA

 Re:

Mike H,

We only need faith in God when we can not see him.
When we see him face to face we will need faith in him no more.
Our hope is in God and the coming of Christ. When the perfect comes (Jesus) we need no more expectation for good to happen.
Love is eternal because God is love. If we are with God; love is present.

This is quite an old interpretation for 1 Cor 13:13.

God bless,
Josh


_________________
JOSHUA MEYERS

 2006/12/18 13:14Profile





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