[color=FF0000] This most serious subject has made me dig somemore, and i'd like to readdress the confusion that surrounds the word "hell" ...

It seems for some reason in the KJV (not sure abour others) someone came up with the bright idea that whereever the words: Sheol, hades and Gehenna
were used they just lumped them all as hell ... This has to be the reason why most saints don't know the differences between "sheol, hades & gehenna" ...

i'd forgotten about my Young's Literal Translation of the Bible and so found one online ...[/color]

[b]Young's Literal Translation of the Bible[/b]
http://software77.com/onlinebibles/ylt/

[color=FF0000] What i like about this Bible is that it tries to just translate as it is ... i found some interesting comparrisons, keeping in mind that OT Sheol and NT Hades speak of the holding place of mankinds spirits while Gehenna speaks of something much more dire, a place of fire and destruction for refuse ...[/color]



[b]Lazarus1719 wrote;
It is very interesting to note that Jesus preached more about God's wrath than He did about God's love. Jesus is the one who actually coined the phrase "hell-fire".[/b]

[color=FF0000] This phrase is found no where else in scripture except Matt. 5:22 & 18:9 if we read it from a KJV but in the YLT in both instances notice how it's actually translated;[/color]


[b]Matt.5

KJV[/b]
[22] But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of [b]hell-fire[/b].

[b]YLT[/b]
[22] but I -- I say to you, that every one who is angry at his brother without cause, shall be in danger of the judgment, and whoever may say to his brother, Empty fellow! shall be in danger of the sanhedrim, and whoever may say, Rebel! shall be in danger of the [b]gehenna of the fire[/b].


[b]Matt.18

KJV[/b]
[8] Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
[9] And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into [b]hell-fire[/b].

[b]YLT[/b]
[8] And if thy hand or thy foot doth cause thee to stumble, cut them off and cast from thee; it is good for thee to enter into the life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast to the fire the age-during.
[9] And if thine eye doth cause thee to stumble, pluck it out and cast from thee; it is good for thee one-eyed to enter into the life, rather than having two eyes to be cast to the [b]gehenna of the fire[/b].



[b]JaySaved wrote;
Jesus spoke more about Hell than any other person mentioned in the entire Bible. In fact almost all we know about Hell was told to us by Christ.
Was Jesus a 'Hell-fire and Brimstone' teacher? Depends. Depends on who he was addressing. If he was addressing a proud defiant Pharisee, then he spoke strongly against them. (See Matthew 23)[/b]


[color=FF0000] Amen ... in this instance as above Christ was talking about Gehenna, the place of fiery torment ... Check out the differences in translation ...[/color]

[b]KJV[/b]
[15] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of [b]hell[/b] than yourselves.

[b]YLT[/b]
[15] Wo to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye go round the sea and the dry land to make one proselyte, and whenever it may happen -- ye make him a son of [b]gehenna[/b] twofold more than yourselves.



[b]AshleyJnr wrote;
"there were occasions when our Lord preached "fire and brimstone" to others beside the pharisees. in Luke 10 it seems he even rebuked entire cities.[/b]


[color=FF0000] Amen again ... but check out the difference in the translations ... In this instance He's talking about "the holding place of spirits' and not the final fiery destiny of Gehenna ...[/color]

[b]KJV[/b]
[15] And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to [b]hell[/b].

[b]YTL[/b]
[15] And thou, Capernaum, which unto the heaven wast exalted, unto [b]hades[/b] thou shalt be brought down.


[color=FF0000] From this i've been able to determine that when Jesus was adressing His disciples below just which "hell" He was talking about ...[/color]

[b]Matt.5[/b]
[22] But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of [b]hell-fire (YLT - gehenna of the fire)[/b].

[b]Matt.18[/b]
[8] Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
[9] And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into [b]hell-fire (YLT - gehenna of the fire)[/b].


[b]Matt. 25:[/b]
[41] Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into [b]everlasting fire (YLT - age-during = gehenna of the fire)[/b], prepared for the devil and his angels:


[b]MARK 9:

KJV[/b]
[43] And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into [b]hell[/b], into the fire that never shall be quenched:
[44] Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
[45] And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into [b]hell[/b], into the fire that never shall be quenched:
[46] Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
[47] And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into [b]hell[/b] fire:
[48] Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.


[b]YLT[/b]
[43] And if thy hand may cause thee to stumble, cut it off; it is better for thee maimed to enter into the life, than having the two hands, to go away to the [b]gehenna[/b], to the fire -- the unquenchable --
[44] where there worm is not dying, and the fire is not being quenched.
[45] And if thy foot may cause thee to stumble, cut it off; it is better for thee to enter into the life lame, than having the two feet to be cast to the [b]gehenna[/b], to the fire -- the unquenchable
[46] where there worm is not dying, and the fire is not being quenched.
[47] And if thine eye may cause thee to stumble, cast it out; it is better for thee one-eyed to enter into the reign of God, than having two eyes, to be cast to the [b]gehenna[/b] of the fire --
[48] where their worm is not dying, and the fire is not being quenched;


[color=FF0000] Because of this thread i've even gotten a clearer understanding of ...[/color]

[b]Matt:16

KJV[/b]
[18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of [b]hell[/b] shall not prevail against it.

[b]YLT[/b]
[18] And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of [b]Hades[/b] shall not prevail against it;

[color=FF0000] i've always been under the impression that "hell" here has a more sinister connatation as like satan attacking us shall not prevail, but from the Hades point of view it seems more like the literal translation is that "the holding place of mankind spirits after death" will not prevail, which certainly has been the case since Christ resurrection!

Blessings in Jesus! [/color] :-D

Hi Rahman,

thanks for that, it seems like it (YLT)is a version that I will look more at in future.

thanks again,

_________________
Zeke Oosthuis

Bro ZekeO ...

You're welcome ... The YLT is very interesting in comparing scriptures! ... :-D

i posted this as a seperate thread hoping to get broader exposure ... i'm posting it here too just in case someone might have some observations ...

From doing some research due to another thread i found that in the KJV (which i always use) for some reason it was decided that wherever the word Sheol was in the OT, or Hades and Gehenna in the NT they would all be called "hell" ... Not good ... Why? ... Because the two have different meanings ...

When it comes to what's known as "the underworld" here are the terms i can find in scripture;

1 - Sheol (Hebrew OT)
2 - Hades (NT Greek translation of Sheol)
3 - Gehenna (NT)
4 - the fiery furnace (NT)
5 - Tartarus (NT)
6 - the lake which burns with fire & brimstone (NT)
7 - the second death (NT)

In the YLT OT "Sheol" is found 62 times (with never any descriptions of it given), but you will not find "Gehenna" (Tho there are 11 references to the valley of Hinnom which Gehenna is derived from) nor "Tartarus", or any descriptions of such as Jesus spoke of when He began ministering...

In the YLT NT "Hades" is found 11 times ... "Gehenna" 12 times and "furnace of fire" 2 times are in the Gospel and spoken of by Jesus, and "Tartarus 1 time later spoken of by Peter ... "the lake of fire and brimstone" and "the second death" are both NT phrases in reference to eternal torment and found only in the Revelation ...

Because of translations like the KJV (regarding the broader usage of hell) many of us probably don't know when the differences apply as we read, but it became obvious to me in my research (using Young's Literal Interpretation of the Bible) that the Jews of Jesus day did without seeming explanation and description in the OT ... If there are any OT explanations/descriptions you know of please post them! ...

It's my understanding (if i'm wrong i'm looking for clarification and correction) that Sheol (OT Hebrew) and Hades (NT Greek) refer to the holding place(s) of the spirits/souls of mankind after death, which is no longer the case for saved folk after Christ resurrection - but still so for the unsaved ... i researched the whole OT and i couldn't find one instance where the description Jesus gave of it in Luke 16 is ever described in the OT ...

Gehenna (which is what i mean when i say Hell) in NT, derived in meaning from the valley of Hinnom (a ever burning fiery garbage dump), represents something far more horrible than Hades as a place of everlasting torment, synonymous with Jesus' "furnace of the fire" in Matt. 13 and Revelation's "lake burning with fire and brimstone" and "the second death" ...

Jesus said in ... Matt. 13:

YLT
[40] As, then, the darnel is gathered up, and is burned with fire, so shall it be in the full end of this age,
[41] the Son of Man shall send forth his messengers, and they shall gather up out of his kingdom all the stumbling-blocks, and those doing the unlawlessness,
[42] and shall cast them to the furnace of the fire; there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth.
[49] so shall it be in the full end of the age, the messengers shall come forth and separate the evil out of the midst of the righteous,
[50] and shall cast them to the furnace of the fire, there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth.'
[51] Jesus saith to them, `Did ye understand all these?' They say to him, `Yes, sir.'

i couldn't find one instance of mention of description or explanation in the OT about what Jesus said here, yet when He asked the crowd if they understood all He'd said the answered "yes" ... How is this so? ... Seems to me there would have been all kinds of questions going off When Christ spoke about "Hades" or "Gehenna" but there weren't, they knew the difference ... When Christ called the Scribes, and the Pharisees "sons of Gehenna" they weren't baffled at all but knew it was a curse leveled at them worse than "sons of Hades" ... How did they know without any explanation of description from the OT? ...

Then there's Tartarus refering to the holding place of those fallen angels who left their first estate (2Pet. 2:4, Jude 5-7) and mated with the daughters of men back in Genesis ... This is only mentioned once in scripture, yet there's no mention of such a place in the OT ... How did Peter know of such a place? ...

_________________
JOSHUA MEYERS