Poster | Thread | lovegrace Member
Joined: 2006/8/12 Posts: 313
| Fire and Brimstone not biblical | | Quote:
KrispyKrittr wrote: The Lord Jesus Christ was a fire and brimstone preacher, and every God-ordained preacher is commanded to preach the Word with reproof, rebuke, and exhortation" (2 Timothy 4:2).
I've heard this from MANY Christians, of course on this site.
But I challenge this theology. I belive this is unbiblical and taken completely out of context.
My questions are:
1. Who did Christ preach to when He gave a 'fire and brimstone' message?
2. What was the purpose of it? (i.e. Always to Fear God, or are there other purposes of a 'fire and brimstone' message)
3. How did Christ treat the harlots and tax collectors?
4. How did Christ treat the Pharasees?
Now. I don't want you jumping in and stating your opinion. There is a reason why I posted this in the 'scripture and doctrine' area. Because I want BIBLICAL citiations.
Also, feel free to cite some preachers if you want to. To add more to your statements.
I know this might get 'heated' but this is a serious doctrinal issue and I feel that it needs to be discussed
May God enlighten our hearts. 8-) |
| 2006/12/12 19:46 | Profile | murdog Member
Joined: 2006/2/4 Posts: 352 Fort Frances, Ontario
| Re: Fire and Brimstone not biblical | | Lovegrace,
We have gotten pretty far away from fire and brimstone preaching and started preaching Jesus just wants to be your best friend messages.
And look at the fruit!
There isn't any. The North American church is as worldly as you can get. There is no fear of God before there eyes, and boy can you ever tell.
Murray _________________ Murray Beninger
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| 2006/12/12 19:50 | Profile |
| Re: | | Someone recently asked me, "Where in the bible did Jesus ever preach about hell to the general multitudes?"
My response was "The Sermon on the Mount".
It is very interesting to note that Jesus preached more about God's wrath then He did about God's love. Jesus is the one who actually coined the phrase "hell-fire".
Jesus only spoke about God's love for humanity in six verses of the four gospels.
But in 163 verese He spoke about wrath, hell, condemnation, and judgment.
In the book of Acts, the fear of God was referenced half a dozen times. But the love of God was not referenced once. |
| 2006/12/12 20:16 | | JennRich Member
Joined: 2006/7/17 Posts: 140 Alabama
| Re: Fire and Brimstone not biblical | | Lovegrace wrote: Now. I don't want you jumping in and stating your opinion. There is a reason why I posted this in the 'scripture and doctrine' area. Because I want BIBLICAL citiations.
JennRich writes: Luke 13 says, "There were some present at that very time who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And he answered them, Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way? No, I tell you; BUT UNLESS YOU REPENT, YOU WILL ALL LIKEWISE PERISH. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? No, I tell you; BUT UNLESS YOU REPENT, YOU WILL ALL LIKEWISE PERISH.
Notice Jesus said this TWICE.
Of course the good news is that the blood of Christ covers our sins (praise His name), but it's not good news to you IF YOU DON'T KNOW YOU'RE A SINNER. If there weren't numerous passages like the above in Scripture, I would not realize how serious my sin is. Then and only then do I embrace the Gospel and see how marvelous it is.
_________________ Jennifer Richardson
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| 2006/12/12 21:16 | Profile | KingJimmy Member
Joined: 2003/5/8 Posts: 4419 Charlotte, NC
| Re: | | I think the phrase "hell, fire, and brimstone messages" puts a bitter taste in the folks of mouth is because we immediately imagine some self-righteous, holier-than-thou man with beeds of sweat rolling down his brow, preaching with elation that he is going to heaven, while you are going to hell. Such men should evoke such a taste in our mouth, and such preaching should be looked down upon.
However, true Biblical hell-fire preaching comes from a broken man who knows that if it were not but for the grace of God, he would be going to hell with those whom he is preaching to. Such a man is not gleefully proclaiming the endless misery the lost soul shall suffer, rather, he proclaims it out of a sense of mourning. He hates that he has to do such, and if given the choice, would not do it.
True hell-fire preaching is simply seeking to put the gospel in its eternal perspective. A gospel message that is blind to eternity is not a gospel message. _________________ Jimmy H
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| 2006/12/12 21:29 | Profile | JaySaved Member
Joined: 2005/7/11 Posts: 1132 Missouri
| Re: | | Jesus spoke more about Hell than any other person mentioned in the entire Bible. In fact almost all we know about Hell was told to us by Christ. But, Jesus also showed mercy and had compassion. In fact, Jesus told some people that they were children of the devil and also told a woman guilty of adultery that he does not condemn her.
Was Jesus a 'Hell-fire and Brimstone' teacher? Depends. Depends on who he was addressing. If he was addressing a proud defiant Pharisee, then he spoke strongly against them. (See Matthew 23). If Jesus was addressing a humble person, he responded in mercy and grace. (See John 3)
In 1 Timothy 1, Paul summarizes how Jesus spoke to a person depending on the condition of their heart and how we should as well:
8We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurersand for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
As Ray Comfort said in one of his sermons, 'Grace to the Humble, Law to the Proud'.
Hell-fire and brimstone teaching is useful when speaking to a group of people who are self-righteous and proud. Jesus did this himself.
Grace and mercy teaching is useful when speaking to humble people who are seeking help from God. Jesus did this himself. |
| 2006/12/12 21:36 | Profile | crsschk Member
Joined: 2003/6/11 Posts: 9192 Santa Clara, CA
| Re: Fire and Brimstone not biblical | | Quote:
Now. I don't want you jumping in and stating your opinion. There is a reason why I posted this in the 'scripture and doctrine' area. Because I want BIBLICAL citiations.
Careful there brother, this is not a place for dictating.
[i]And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.[/i] Luk 9:54,54
I believe we may be guilty of doing just this ...
[i]But he turned and rebuked them[/i]
_________________ Mike Balog
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| 2006/12/13 0:55 | Profile | AshleyJnr Member
Joined: 2006/6/17 Posts: 45 Guolburn, NSW Australia
| Re: | | Quote:
My questions are:
1. Who did Christ preach to when He gave a 'fire and brimstone' message?
Are you probing for the answer "the Pharisees" ? No accusation intended, ít's hard to inteperet tone when you are just reading text. :-)
Quote:
I believe we may be guilty of doing just this ... But he turned and rebuked them
Oh the irony, perhaps it is those of us pharisee's that want to justify fire and brimstone, who need it preached at us.
In saying that, there were occasions when our Lord preached "fire and brimstone" to others beside the pharisees. in Luke 10 it seems he even rebuked entire cities.
Luke 10 13Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. 14But it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment, than for you. 15And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.
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| 2006/12/13 5:14 | Profile | GraceAlone Member
Joined: 2006/8/23 Posts: 232 Orlando, Florida
| Re: | | "Fire and Brimstone" - What do you mean by this? Do you mean preaching on hell? If thats what you mean then you're mistaken. Look in a concorance. Jesus preached on hell more than anybody else in the scriptures. Besides why wouldn't you want to hear preaching on hell? Do you not believe in hell? If I didn't hear hellfire preahing I'd be scared for the congregation. It says that Noah was a preacher of righteousness. John the Baptist preached on repentance. On the sermon on the mount Christ spoke of being cut down and being thrown into the fire. God id Just and we can't pick and choose which doctrines to preach on- we must preach them all. _________________ Kristy
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| 2006/12/13 13:43 | Profile | RobertW Member
Joined: 2004/2/12 Posts: 4636 St. Joseph, Missouri
| Re: | | Quote:
True hell-fire preaching is simply seeking to put the gospel in its eternal perspective. A gospel message that is blind to eternity is not a gospel message.
I think this is a good quote worth pondering a bit. _________________ Robert Wurtz II
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| 2006/12/13 14:03 | Profile |
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