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mamaluk
Member



Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524


 Re:

This thread put me up on the fear level a bit. (yeah, i'm easily frightened by satan.) Thank God for the Book of Job, look at the aftermath of the attacks through the Sovereign Hands of God. Incredible!!

[color=0000CC]Job 42

(Job's response and attititude}
[b]1Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
2I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
3Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
4Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
5I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
6Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes. [/b] wow!!!

(Job's rewards)
8Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.
9So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went, and did according as the LORD commanded them: the LORD also accepted Job.
10And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before.
11Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.
12So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses.
13He had also seven sons and three daughters.
14And he called the name of the first, Jemima; and the name of the second, Kezia; and the name of the third, Kerenhappuch.
15And in all the land were no women found so fair as the daughters of Job: and their father gave them inheritance among their brethren.
16After this lived Job an hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons' sons, even four generations.
17So Job died, being old and full of days.[/color]

[edited]
If we all wind up having these blessings as "scars" instead? :) Yeah, I believe we do, with Christ, what else could we want..? Just to attain Job's attitude alone is rewarding enough, in my case, I suppose.

"Don't be afraid, just believe" Praise Thee Lord!
GOD [b]is[/b] the greatest,..only to be vigilant..

Please pardon me Paul, i so need some comfort from topics like this.

 2006/12/12 8:56Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: War On The Saints

Quote:
I think it is interesting to note that while our natural mind certainly has its propensity for restlessness and dwelling on vanities, there comes a time where something else takes over and alien thoughts and desires flood in so strongly that it feels as though something is literally speaking them into your head. Now, this doesn't happen too often - and praise God for that - but when it does, there is no mistaking.



Quote:
An attack. They literally incapacitate you. And the worst kinds are the ones that flood in and challenge the central core of your beliefs. Those are the spookiest, because what do you do? Here is something that transcends mortal temptation, in my book. It's one thing to entice a man sexually - it's another to strike directly at the heels of his faith.



Most certainly brother. Well recall points of just tremendous mental and spiritual agony. The thought's instantly return to the scenes of the crimes ... Times when I was convinced I was going insane, these were somewhat the 'early' years and right around the time of trying to understand, make sense of the whole madness of WOF style teaching. Times when I would scream (with the windows rolled up) while driving to work at many of the same things you have mentioned, especially this draw towards atheistic unbelief, a zillion 'evidences' badgering the mind ... Brother, there was a point when I went to the hospital to see if I was in some sort of depression and ... Can still remember sitting there thinking, "This is ridiculous, how in the world will a doctor, if he\she be not a believer even begin to understand spiritual matters?" And I wasn't far off, they basically told me there was nothing wrong with me ... Such foolishness! I was being torn to shreds by the enemy of our souls but I was ignorant and [i]confused[/i] ... That, a tell tale sign as we know or ought to know being very much the red flag. This went on for quite a few seasons, much like a battle, a regrouping and new conflicts arising.

Went back and dug up a couple of journal notes, I do hope the saints are doing something of this sort, keeping some form of expression to look back on, a great deal can be gleaned by what we have gone through. This one, I had sent to the brother who put together The Revival Hymn right around the time we had taken on doing a written transcript, he had recently been under an assault as I, this is from about 3 years ago now;


[i]Something ripping at the core of my being-
An unknown terror bleeding for comfort.
Only deadly silence
Torn asunder
All has been denied me
Hellish thought's of unbelief,
offered for relief of sorrow-

These do not tempt me,
nor deter me.
Have we become unaware?
Shall I give heed to a liar?
Though you assault me,
and I drink of the cup of madness.

Can I be persuaded to fear God less,
or enticed with trinkets of grandeur?
Away! Away from me!
You have no part.

Shall I cease to trust,
though I understand it not?
Of my own reason
deliver my heart?
Despair at the purging altar?
Oh God, leave me not to my own devices.

Let my cries and tears
Be acceptable in Your sight
As the flesh is purged
in the Heavenly light.
May it be in a hidden way
through the allotted days.
Away from man's gaze
and his every praise.[/i]


Another;

Postcard To The Devil

[i]By what great of conspiracy has this battleground of lies arisen to strike, this uncircumcised Philistine to defy the God of all the living? 40 days and nights of incessant chatter, taunts and spewing forth words to cause fear that are but empty, useless. Let no mans heart fail because of him; your servant will go and fight with this Philistine. Draw near that your head be lopped off once and for all.

Is it not a fixed law that pride goes before a fall and yet a never ending sneer it is. Prove me a liar this day that I would have faith and up from the pit comes unbelief. I said, "I will be strong in His power and might" and no sooner the thought than the test. Driven even further into the wilderness, to be tempted into disbelief. The onslaught came like a flood. Past memory of former days, of forgotten loves and pleasurable sins. The subtle craftiness and appalling offer to bow down to you, the father of all lies and accept 'all these things' as if a prize to be desired.

In the travail of the soul day after day and night after night, when I thought I had seen the worst of it, in anguish and weakness, in hunger and lack, always the coward and then the attack. Through the fog and confusion found captured behind enemy lines, pressed for surrender, shackled and chained.

When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.[/i]

Nothing to profound but the effects are well recalled. Times in prayer, actually this last one was derived from that as it came about during prayer which just floored me.

I believe this thread can be of some great help here within some boundaries. It can get difficult as we know by going too far, paying too much attention to the coward, a mighty coward but both this and a liar and deceiver, the whole of [i]An angel of light[/i] to be explored or exposed.

Very much struck by Jesse Penn Lewis in those descriptions of the out of control aspects and the embracing, rather than the reputing of in some of our more recent revivals.

As last comment, something that keeps our right balance and is well worth heeding, especially verse 9;

Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Jud 1:8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2006/12/12 9:34Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: The Battle Scars of a Satanic Attack

Great post.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2006/12/14 16:31Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: to teach them war

One morning I woke up and Judges chapter 3 came to my mind. I wasn't familiar with the content of the chapter other than having read it probably at least once before. I do remember seeking God for understanding as to the challenges I was facing in my Christian walk.

I went downstairs and got my Bible open to this chapter. Maybe the first four verses will speak to some of you as they to did me. I'll share the first one:



[b][color=000000] Now these are the nations which the Lord left,

to prove Israel by them,

even as many of Israel

as had not known all the wars of Canaan;[/color][/b]





Peace be upon the Israel of God


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2006/12/14 19:45Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

  Judas and The Heavenly Man

Paul's thread here has been sitting in the back of the mind for some time now. Something about the tussles and back and forth that comes up in our discussions here, sometimes it's the flesh, that leaning on the natural and sometimes it is that very opportunity that makes for an inroad it seems for the devil.

Have had this chapter open for quite a few days and have re-read it a number of times, think it applies quite well to this whole matter. It is explanatory at first, yet figured it best to leave all intact even if it appears to be a bit long.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[b]The Stewardship of the Mystery - Volume 1[/b]
[i]by T. Austin-Sparks[/i]

[i]Chapter 14 - 1. Judas—The Indwelling of Satan in its Outworking. 2. The Heavenly Man—The Indwelling of God[/i]


Reading: John 13:21–33; Eph. 3:17–19; Col. 1:25–27.

We are to view the Lord Jesus in relation to the first Adam, and all that came in through that which happened with the first Adam in his fall, not only as this has reference to man and his condition, but to all that which Adam’s act of disobedience let into this universe, and into this world. That act of disobedience opened the door at which the forces of evil were standing, waiting for access. Adam was that door. They could never have got in but for Adam, but he opened the door by his disobedience, and the forces of evil rushed into God’s creation, and took up a position of great strength, to bring about in it a state of things contrary to God, and that in the most powerful and terrible way. To all of that, to the powers themselves, and the state brought about through their being let in, and all the consequences thereof, the Lord Jesus was, and is, God’s answer. But there was a secret about Him, a secret which spiritual intelligences alone could really discern, and this was that God was in Him. He was a Man, but He was far more than that; He was God. In these meditations our concern has been with what the Lord Jesus is as Son of Man, God’s Man, the Heavenly Man, in Whom God was, and is. That secret, that mystery hidden from the ages, hidden from men, is the greatest factor to be reckoned with.

So far as the enemy was concerned, his main objective with the Lord Jesus was to seek to get in between Him and that Divine relationship; to drive a wedge in and in some way to get Him to move on a ground apart from that inner, deepest reality of the Father. The meaning of the temptations in the wilderness is that they were an attempt to drive that wedge in between, to get Him to act apart from the Father, to move on His own human ground. The enemy knew quite well that, if only he could succeed in getting Him to do that, he would accomplish with the last Adam what he had accomplished with the first, and would have re-established his dominion and again gained the mastery. The secret of Christ’s victory was that He was so one with the Father, that in everything He was governed by the Father within, dwelling in Him. The life of the Heavenly Man, the Son of Man, again and again bids us heed the question that once came from His own lips: “Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?” (John 14:10,11). It was on that basis that He lived His life and met the enemy, and because He remained on that basis the enemy was incapable of destroying Him.

Many times attempts were made by the Devil to destroy Him, both directly and through men, but it was impossible while He remained on that basis, and this He did right to the end, and triumphed because of that inward relationship, that upon which He was living deliberately, consciously, persistently: the Father was in Him, and He and the Father were one; He dwelt in the Father, and the Father dwelt in Him.

But—and this is one of the main points that we want the Lord to show us at this time—that was the great secret, the wonderful secret which men could not read; for He Himself said, “...no one knoweth Who the Son is, save the Father...” (Luke 10:22). John, writing his epistle long years after, said, “...the world knoweth us not, because it knew Him not” (1 John 3:1). The world knew Him not. In His own prayer recorded by John, we have these words: “O righteous Father, the world knew Thee not, but I knew Thee...” (John 17:25). It was on the basis of that secret relationship that there was to be a glorifying of Him. The glorifying of the Lord Jesus was bound up with that secret.

Now we want to know what the glorifying of the Son is, the glorifying of the Heavenly Man. We will again first take up the question in relation to the Heavenly Man in person, and then see how the same thing applies to the corporate Heavenly Man.

“When therefore he was gone out, Jesus saith, Now is the Son of Man glorified, and God is glorified in Him; and God shall glorify Him in Himself, and straightway shall He glorify Him” (John 13:31,32).

We need not be concerned for the moment with the form of the statement. It sounds a little involved and difficult, but let us take the central comprehensive statement: “Now is the Son of Man glorified, and God is glorified in Him....” It is upon the word “now” that everything hangs, and the Lord Jesus put into that little word a tremendous meaning. To what does that word relate? “When therefore he (Judas) was gone out, Jesus saith, Now is the Son of Man glorified.”

[b]The Rejected Natural Man[/b]

I confess that Judas was a problem to me for many years, but I think I am getting near the truth about him, and this passage seems to give us the clue. The problem, of course, has its occasion in the statement of the Lord Jesus that He knew whom He had chosen: “Did not I choose you the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” (John 6:70). He chose Judas and brought him into association with Himself, in such a way that he had all the advantages of the others and all the facilities that were theirs; all the benefits of the others were open to him. There is no trace of partiality. He has placed Judas apparently upon exactly the same footing, excluding him from nothing which was open to the rest, all deliberately, consciously, knowing what He was doing, and knowing all the time what Judas was. Then all finally heads up to this statement, “Now is the Son of Man glorified....”

I do not know how best to put it, and wish I had language and wisdom to express this, that would capture your hearts as it has captured mine; for I am inwardly glorying in what is brought to us here. To begin with, this represents the full development of man under the kindness of God: “...for He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sendeth rain on the just and the unjust” (Matt. 5:45). God has shown no partiality amongst men. He has made it possible for all men to enjoy His benefits. He has shown unbelieving, Godless, rebellious men great kindness. He has not discriminated. All men may know His kindness and His goodness. Man is thus represented in Judas, who in this figurative way is here set in relation to the Lord, so that what is available to those who are really the Lord’s is available to him; he can come into it, it is open to him. The Lord has not shown any partiality. Yet man, living under the beneficent, merciful and gracious will, purpose, thought, and desire of God, can develop to this.

Let us seek to explain that. Man has been tried under every condition from the beginning. First of all he was tried under innocence. How did he behave? He failed. Then in his fallen state he was tried again, without law. How did he get on? He failed again. Then he was tried under law, but failed as before. Man has failed under every condition. He has been tried by God in every state and appointment, and has utterly failed. The end has always been a tragedy. No matter what attitude God takes toward man, in himself he is a failure and will work out to the most dreadful tragedy.

Look at Israel. What is the attitude of the Lord toward Israel? How marvellous is the way the Lord dealt with Israel. Look at the patience of God with Israel, the kindness of God with Israel, the ground upon which Israel was set before Him. In effect, God said: You have only to show something of faithfulness to Me and you will immediately receive blessing. Some of us have wished we could get blessing as instantly as Israel did when they were true to the Lord. They were subjects of such special care, but they failed. Their condition and treatment is figuratively set forth in the unprofitable fig-tree, that bore no fruit in spite of years of care. Justice demanded that it be cut down without delay, but still further opportunity is given: “Let us dig about it and dung it this year also.” Let us show kindness for another year! But it is just as big a failure. So man, tried under every condition, brought into touch with the beneficent will of God, is yet a failure.

Judas gathers up man, man to whom is open all that God has, man who is brought into touch with all the good and perfect will of God, and yet in himself the most awful failure; for this man, when he comes to his fulness, will betray his Lord, he is so hopeless. Man in himself, even though the mercies of God may go out to him, will arrive at this. This is a fearful end. “Yea, mine own familiar friend... which did eat of my bread,” says the Psalmist, “hath lifted up his heel against me” (Ps. 41:9). Thus will this man do amidst the very wealth of the grace of God.

Here is Judas representing one who has been brought into touch with the Lord, and to whom all the blessings are open that are open to the rest of the Lord’s own, and this is how he turns out. It is a picture of man in himself. Is it not true? The full development of old Adam, of the first Adam, in whom God does not dwell, is here shown to us. Just at the point where this man is surrounded with all the advantages, all the facilities, all the blessings, all the opportunity, all that could have been his, just at that point he goes out to betray his Lord: “...and it was night” (John 13:30). There is a world of meaning in that.

[b]The Heavenly Man of God’s Election[/b]

Instantly that man has gone out the Lord Jesus says, “Now is the Son of Man glorified....” What does this mean? This is God’s answer to all that. God has another Man, Whose path is to be wholly different from that tragedy, that dark calamity, a Son of Man Who can be glorified. God has prepared His own Man to take the place of this other man, as soon as he has reached his end: and what an evil end it is! Do you see what is signified in the end of Judas? When he goes out God brings in His Man Who can be glorified.

Do you see why the Lord Jesus chose Judas? Do you see why it is that when he was gone out Jesus said, “Now is the Son of Man glorified?” There is the one who represents the Adam man and what he comes to in spite of all God’s grace and mercy which is at his command. Until there is something in him other than himself, that is what he comes to. And just when that nature, that man, that race is seen in its full awfulness, its full outworking, lifting its heel in treachery against the God of all grace; just when that man reaching fulness goes out into the dark, the eternal night, God begins His new day by bringing in His new Man to take his place.

What is the secret? What kind of man will be glorified? We have seen the man who cannot be glorified, who goes out into the darkness. What kind of man is he who can be glorified? What is the principle and secret of His glorifying? It is that God is in him. What is the glorifying of the Lord Jesus? It is the breaking forth and manifesting of the Father in Him, of that secret which makes Him other than the type represented by Judas. The hope of glory in His case, the certainty of glory, was the Father dwelling in Him. “Now is the Son of Man glorified, and God is glorified in Him....” That is a full-orbed statement about the glorifying of the Son of Man. It is remarkable that this statement should be found in the Gospel by John, in which the Lord Jesus is pre-eminently set forth as the Son of God.

[b]The Glorifying of the Corporate Heavenly Man[/b]

Now, of course, we come to feel the benefit and the power of this, when it is transferred from the personal Heavenly Man to the corporate Heavenly Man. So the Apostle says: “That Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith...” (Eph. 3:17); “...Christ in you, the hope of glory...” (Col. 1:27). We read at the beginning of the Letter to the Ephesians that we are “...a habitation of God in the Spirit” (2:22). What does this mean in its value and out-working? This Body, so created and living upon that fact, is as indestructible as Christ Himself, is as certain of victory as was Christ. On the principle that Christ dwells in the heart by faith, this Body can enter into wrestling with principalities and powers, world rulers of this darkness, spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenlies, and come out victor on the field.

What is the secret of the glorifying of the Church, His Body, the corporate Man, and what is the nature of the glorifying? It is the same thing. It is the manifestation of the secret, the coming out from secrecy into open display of that which is true, of Christ within. During the course of this dispensation, the secret is in the Church, in the members of Christ, but “...the world knoweth us not, because it knew Him not” (1 John 3:1). Looked at from the outside we are very little different from any other people in the world. Yet the secret is there, and this secret means that if you touch that one, or that church, you touch God. “Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou Me?” said the Lord, when Saul was touching His members. He is in His members. You have to reckon with Him. They are indestructible, they cannot be destroyed. We are not talking about the destroying of the body. The true Church is an indestructible entity. When Satan has done his worst, that Church will still stand triumphant, and will abide for ever, when he and all his shall have been banished from the universe.

At the end of this dispensation which has held this hidden secret, there will be an unveiling of the Christ in His Church, when it appears with Him in glory, and it will be glorified on the same principle as that on which He was glorified.

[b]The Essential Basis of the Believer’s Everyday Life[/b]

Now, there is something that we have to take to our own hearts out of these inclusive factors. We have to live all the time on this basis that we have set forth, and as we do so the enemy’s power is absolutely rendered nil. Our trouble is that we do not live upon this basis. We live so much upon ourselves. We live upon our own feelings, our own conditions, our own state, anything and everything that is ourselves, and because we do that we are simply played with by the Devil. When we get into our own mood, what a mess he makes of us. When we get into our own feelings, or our own thoughts what havoc there is. Anything that is ourselves, if we get into that, and live on that, will give the enemy an opportunity to do as he likes. Whenever believers get down into themselves, on to the ground of what they are, if it is only for a moment, they begin to lose their balance, their poise, their rest, their peace, their joy, and they are tossed about of the Devil at his will. They may come to the place where they even wonder whether they are saved. Let us remember that the part of us which still belongs to the fallen creation, and will not survive, is the playground of the enemy, and it is of no use our trying to make it survive.

We have, for instance, a physical life. Within the compass of this natural, physical life as a part of the old creation, anything is possible. Mental darkness is possible. The upsetting of our nervous system can be of such a kind as to make us feel that hell rages in our very being. Anything is possible of moods, and feelings, and sensations, or of utter deadness and numbness, and if we live in that realm the Devil plays havoc. He encamps upon such things at once, if we take our natural condition as the criterion. There is no hope of glory in that natural realm.

How is the enemy to be defeated, to be nullified, to be robbed of his power? On the same principle as in the life of the Lord Jesus, by our living on the Father. We must live on the indwelling Christ. Our attitude will have to be continually toward the Lord: Lord, in me Thou art other than I am; Thou art not what I am; Thou art other than this mood, than this feeling, than this absence of feeling; Thou art other than all these thoughts, other than I am! I am dead, so far as my feelings are concerned, but Thou art other than that, Thou art living! I am feeling dark, Thou art the light, and Thou art in me! This is me, this is not the Lord! If only you and I will learn steadily (it will take time, it will be progressive) to live on in Christ, on what He is, on the fact that He is other than we are—not upon our experience of this, but the naked fact that He is within us—if we will steadily learn to live on that basis, by that great Divine reality, then the enemy has nothing in us. The Lord Jesus was able to say, “...the prince of the world cometh; and he hath nothing in Me...” (John 14:30). What was the adversary looking for? He was looking for the Lord Jesus to be living somewhere in Himself, consulting His own feelings, leaning to His own understanding, following His own judgments, His own will. If he could have caught Him there, he would have had something in Him and disturbed the balance of His life. The Lord Jesus was able to say, “...I live because of the Father...” (John 6:57); I live by the Father, not on what I am. He could say that as a perfect, sinless being, living none the less in dependence upon the Father all the time. Of this we have His own testimony: “The Son can do nothing of Himself...” (John 5:19); “...the words that I say unto you I speak not from Myself: but the Father abiding in Me doeth His works” (John 14:10). He lived all the time on the basis of the Father dwelling within, and because of that the enemy had no ground whatever.

This is the lesson of life for us. For any glory within now, or for any hope of glory in the great day of the manifestation, the sole ground of expectation must be Christ in us; because the glory is simply the manifestation of the Christ within, as His glorifying was the manifestation of the Father within.

[b]The Church, a Mystery of a Divine Indwelling[/b]

Now concerning the corporate expression of this Heavenly Man, in the Letter to the Ephesians the Apostle tells us that something is going on in the unseen, the purpose of which is stated thus: “...that now unto the principalities and the powers in the heavenly places might be made known through the Church the manifold wisdom of God.....” I wonder what that means? I do not know altogether, but I think I can see something of what it means. I believe the unseen intelligences are watching to see how they can get an advantage. They are watching with all their cunning, their diabolical wit and wisdom and ingenuity, with all their superhuman intelligence, to see how they can get an advantage, how they can make a stroke, if by any means they can get the upper hand of this baffling creation, the Church. Unto the principalities and powers the manifold wisdom of God is being made known by the Church. How is this being accomplished? A clause from a verse in the First Letter to Timothy will, I think, help us towards the answer. “And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He Who was manifested in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, received up in glory.” A part of the mystery here spoken of is this somewhat obscure statement that He was “seen of angels.” I cannot be satisfied with the thought that this just means that the heavenly angels saw Him, either when He was in the flesh, or after His resurrection. This seems to say to my heart (of course I cannot prove it, but I am comparing scripture with scripture, and taking into account that it is the Holy Spirit Who has disclosed this fact and brought it to our knowledge) that these other angels, these spiritual intelligences who had watched for a chance against His life, seeking an advantage, using their cunning, saw now Who He was, saw the full meaning of His being, and why they had never succeeded in compassing their design, but had been compelled to learn their impotence regarding Him. They know now, because the secret is out. This Man is other than the first Adam; He is different from the first Adam! They got their chance with the first Adam and they took it, and into that race they brought the diabolical wisdom of which the Apostle says, “This wisdom is... devilish [demoniacal]” (James 3:15).

These intelligences had been waiting for an opportunity to bring in their wisdom in this other Adam, this last Adam, and they could not get it. They were beaten and defeated at every point, and now the secret is out, and they see One over Whom they could gain no advantage. Why was this? Because of the Father dwelling in Him. It is to this same truth that Paul refers when he says that Christ crucified, so far from being the wisdom of this world, is the wisdom of God. His wisdom far transcends the wisdom of this world, which in its nature is demoniacal. God is still further displaying His manifold wisdom to principalities and powers through the Church, the Body of Christ, the corporate Heavenly Man. How is this being accomplished? By this mystery of Christ within, defeating their every plan, their every scheme, by the great reality of the indwelling Lord Whose wisdom is so much greater than theirs.

Oh that we could live upon the great reality, the great essential, the great secret of the very being of the Church according to God’s mind, that basic secret of Christ within; not upon what we are at any time, but what Christ is. If you take that position you will be in a position of wisdom that outwits all the cunning of the Devil, and outmatches all his power.

Put it to the test; for it is open to practical proof at any time. If when you are next feeling desperately bad and hopeless and full of evil in yourself, as though all that you had believed in no longer held water and everything had gone to pieces, and all the sensations are upon you that it is possible for one to have, till you could well believe that you are lost; if, when this is so, you will take the position that it is all to do with your poor, broken down creation, and that Christ in you is other than that, and by faith stand on Him, the Devil’s power is destroyed, his wisdom is outwitted, and there is glory. That is the lesson we have to learn. Christ in you, and in the Church as the habitation of God through the Spirit, is the symbol of glory, of victory, of power and wisdom. Blessed be God, there are seasons when this reaches out to our feelings and we enjoy the realization that the Lord is in us, but it is not always so. An attack of indigestion can have the strangest effect upon our spiritual life, so far as our consciousness is concerned. The slightest little thing can come along and change the whole situation if we allow ourselves to go out into things. What things the enemy puts up, to draw us out into them! He is busy setting traps everywhere, contriving situations all round us, always ready with something to upset us. How cleverly arranged it is, just at the time when we are least wanting to be upset. Go home from a time with the Lord amongst His people, feeling gloriously uplifted, and probably when you get across the doorstep there is something waiting for you!

How are you going to outwit the Devil, outmaneuvre him, defeat him? By not going out into things. It is not easy; but not to go out into things, not to be drawn into the realm of the old creation so as to become involved in it, but to stand upon the ground that the adversary has to meet the perfection of Christ, is the sure way of his defeat, though we may have to bear with the difficult situation, and endure the pain and pang of it for quite a considerable time. But our position is that Christ is more than that, Christ in us is stronger than that, and falling back upon faith within, reaching out to Christ within as equal to this situation, we must repudiate it. David comes to our rescue so much in this realm. You will remember that on one occasion he was saying all sorts of depressing, hopeless things because the situation looked so utterly impossible; and then he recollected himself and said, “This is my infirmity; but I will remember the years of the right hand of the Most High” (Ps. 77:10). Today I have blue spectacles on! This is my way of viewing things! This is how things affect me! This is me, it is not the Lord! Let us attribute things to their right quarter, and give to Cæsar the things that are Cæsar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.

I am certain that here is the key to everything; the key to everything is Christ in you, Christ in me, Christ in His Body, and that to be lived upon by faith. It is the key to the superior wisdom, to outwit and outmatch the enemy. He will be defeated if we live on Christ and refuse to live on our own ground. The Lord make it clear to us.




_________________
Mike Balog

 2006/12/30 21:27Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: Judas and The Heavenly Man

Brother Mike! What a feast here! I started reading this last night and came back to it this morning and could hardly wait to finish reading through it to respond.

This insight into the meaning and timing of this phrase the Lord spoke

Quote:
[b][color=660033] Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him[/color][/b]



..this is deep!


Quote:
Here is Judas representing one who has been brought into touch with the Lord, and to whom all the blessings are open that are open to the rest of the Lord’s own, and this is how he turns out.



...[b]It is a picture of man in himself[/b]

...[b]Is it not true?[/b]

...[b]The full development of old Adam, of the first Adam, in whom God does not dwell, is here shown to us.[/b]

Quote:
Just at the point where this man is surrounded with all the advantages, all the facilities, all the blessings, all the opportunity, all that could have been his, just at that point he goes out to betray his Lord: “...and it was night” (John 13:30). There is a world of meaning in that.



but then the other side of this...


Quote:
And just when that nature, that man, that race is seen in its full awfulness, its full outworking, lifting its heel in treachery against the God of all grace; just when that man reaching fulness goes out into the dark, the eternal night, God begins His new day by bringing in His new Man to take his place.



Quote:
What is the secret? What kind of man will be glorified? We have seen the man who cannot be glorified, who goes out into the darkness. What kind of man is he who can be glorified? What is the principle and secret of His glorifying?



...[b]It is that God is in him.[/b]

And drawing back to the nature and subject of this thread in specific, is it not possible that this contrast between the earthly and Heavenly man is exactly what is in view in the purposes of God in the allowing of our being buffeted so often by Satan. Is it not so that, in coming up against one so much stronger than ourseveles, we will finally, and completely, and unreservedly, come to the end and relinquishing of all relliance upon our earthly talents and abilities and powers...to the place of the fullness of that mystery [i]Christ in us[/i].

Quote:
These intelligences had been waiting for an opportunity to bring in their wisdom in this other Adam, this last Adam, and they could not get it. They were beaten and defeated at every point, and now the secret is out, and they see One over Whom they could gain no advantage.



...[i][b]Why was this? [/b][/i]

[b]Because of the Father dwelling in Him.[/b]



Quote:
Oh that we could live upon the great reality, the great essential, the great secret of the very being of the Church according to God’s mind, that basic secret of Christ within; not upon what we are at any time, but what Christ is. If you take that position you will be in a position of wisdom that outwits all the cunning of the Devil, and outmatches all his power.



Praise God!

Ohh but how desperately do we want to cling to every last vesitge of the original creation in us. We do not want to part with even the feeblest of ability or talent that we may claim as our own for we know that in so doing we depart with our very last opportunities for glory, glory of our own.

This brings to mind so powerfully a qoute from an author I'm not famiiar with but whose writing has caught my attention in the random article at least twice. W.R. Inge says

Quote:
If anyone in heaven were so bold as to call anything his own, he would immediately be cast out into hell, and become an evil spirit.



And herein seems the same kernel of truth which the Apostle sets forth by contrast where he says



[b][color=000000] But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God...[/color][/b]


...[b][color=000000]as having nothing[/color][/b]

...[b][color=000000]and yet possessing all things[/color][/b]


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2006/12/31 9:35Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Judas and The Heavenly Man

Quote:
And drawing back to the nature and subject of this thread in specific, is it not possible that this contrast between the earthly and Heavenly man is exactly what is in view in the purposes of God in the allowing of our being buffeted so often by Satan. Is it not so that, in coming up against one so much stronger than ourseveles, we will finally, and completely, and unreservedly, come to the end and relinquishing of all relliance upon our earthly talents and abilities and powers...to the place of the fullness of that mystery [i]Christ in us[/i].



Wonderful statement brother! I must admit I am very thrilled to hear that this blessed you as it did myself ... I know these longer articles tend to disuade some and they can fall off into the abyss as it were. But to come back to your mention here, especially that last part about [i]coming to an end[/i] ... it amazes me still how slow it is to just do this, relinquish, even after so many ... beatings!
:-?

Fortunately Sparks also recognised this very astutely;
Quote:
(it will take time, it will be progressive)



Just prior to that comment, this has sat very much in the forefront of thoughts;

Quote:
How is the enemy to be defeated, to be nullified, to be robbed of his power? On the same principle as in the life of the Lord Jesus, by our living on the Father. We must live on the indwelling Christ. Our attitude will have to be continually toward the Lord: Lord, in me Thou art other than I am; Thou art not what I am; Thou art other than this mood, than this feeling, than this absence of feeling; Thou art other than all these thoughts, other than I am! I am dead, so far as my feelings are concerned, but Thou art other than that, Thou art living! I am feeling dark, Thou art the light, and Thou art in me! This is me, this is not the Lord! If only you and I will learn steadily (it will take time, it will be progressive) to live on in Christ, on what He is, on the fact that He is other than we are—not upon our experience of this, but the naked fact that He is within us—if we will steadily learn to live on that basis, by that great Divine reality, then the enemy has nothing in us. The Lord Jesus was able to say, “...the prince of the world cometh; and he hath nothing in Me...” (John 14:30).



The one verse that I don't think was mentioned here but has been also circulating around and seems very applicable;

[i]We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.[/i] 1 John 5:18

Other versions put it slightly different, but my thinking here is along the lines of [i]Who[/i] it is that cannot be touched.

Quote:
How are you going to outwit the Devil, outmaneuvre him, defeat him? By not going out into things. It is not easy; but not to go out into things, not to be drawn into the realm of the old creation so as to become involved in it, but to stand upon the ground that the adversary has to meet the perfection of Christ, is the sure way of his defeat, though we may have to bear with the difficult situation, and endure the pain and pang of it for quite a considerable time. But our position is that Christ is more than that, Christ in us is stronger than that, and falling back upon faith within, reaching out to Christ within as equal to this situation, we must repudiate it.



Oh brother, there is so much wisdom in all this, I am just besides myself ... hey, maybe it's finaly taking root. ;-)


_________________
Mike Balog

 2006/12/31 11:15Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Brother Mike, I'm so blessed by this word and exchange. I thank God! Thank you brother!

Quote:
...it amazes me still how slow it is to just do this, relinquish, even after so many ... beatings!



I know what you mean! Just now the thought of weeds comes to mind, something which I would suppose is a part of the curse upon the earth; they have a special reputation for their tenacity in holding onto life and also for choking out other, more desireable things.

A word which has lingered with me of late is this from the Prophet Isaiah

[b][color=000000] Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.[/color][/b]

and then just now, to tie in with your refrence to our [i]beatings[/i] I think of the verse which says

[b][color=000000] Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.[/color][/b]

ahh...and then something which brother Greg posted in another thread just may tie it all together...

Quote:
Pride is a sin which of all sins, makes a person most like Satan. Pride is Satan's disease. Pride is so base a disease, that God had rather see His dearest children to be buffeted by Satan, than that in pride they should be like Satan.



[i]Taken from here:

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=13960&forum=45&0]Satan's apes - brooks[/url][/i]

Wow.


Continuing on...

Quote:
...this has sat very much in the forefront of thoughts



Out of that portion you qouted, a particular phrase stood out especially to me also, where he writes...

Quote:
We must live on the indwelling Christ.



It is that...[b][i]live [u]on[/u][/b][/i] that stands out so much to me. It gives me the sense of the flowering bud drawing nutrients from the vine, of a total and absolute dependence for its very life. To [b]live on[/b]... to [b]live on[/b]... to [b]live on[/b]...!

Ohh brothers, do we? Do we live upon Him?

As I have been absorbing and chewing on these things my mind was cast back to an obscure article that I read on Sermonindex sometime ago. It probably had come up in the random article but a few lines from it had stuck with me and then I thought how much they bear upon this we have before us. I took some time and actually managed to find the aritcle using google to search the site.

Rather than try and summarise what the article is about I'll just copy the title, which, being somewhat lengthy, should give you an idea of the subject matter. It is called

[i]A SHORT ACCOUNT OF THE SUFFERINGS OF THOSE VALIANT MINISTERS OF THE GOSPEL CATHARINE EVANS AND SARAH CHEEVERS Who for Nearly Four Years Endured The Cruelties of the Inquisition in Malta As Related in THE HISTORY OF THE RISE, INCREASE, AND PROGRESS OF THE PEOPLE OF GOD CALLED QUAKERS By William Sewel[/i]

The qoute which so strongly stands out comes from a series of questions and answers which the women give to their inquisitors. Here is the qoute

Quote:
The friar said, "If we do not eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of God, we have no life in us." They replied, "The flesh and blood of Christ is spiritual and we do feed upon it daily, for that which is begotten of God in us can no more live without spiritual food than our temporal bodies can without temporal food."




[b]The flesh and blood of Christ is spiritual
and we do feed upon it daily, for [u]that which is begotten of God[/u] in us [u]can no more live without spiritual food[/u] than our temporal bodies can without temporal food[/b]

[i]Taken from here:
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=4098]Short account of Sarah Cheevers[/url][/i]


Well? Isn't this the issue before us? Are we feeding upon the Lord...[b]daily[/b]? I do not mean the [i]things of God[/i], but of God Himself, in Christ, the Living Bread.

[b][color=660033] I am that bread of life.[/color][/b]

[b][color=660033]Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.[/color][/b]

[b][color=660033]This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.[/color][/b]

I ask myself, how do our Chinese brothers and sisters survive so many years in prison without even a Bible? How is it that the communist are said to have destroyed every visible sign of Christianity in China only to find years later that instead of wiping Christianity out, it flourished!

Our author goes on to write

Quote:
Now, of course, we come to feel the benefit and the power of this, when it is transferred from the personal Heavenly Man to the corporate Heavenly Man....This Body, so created and living upon that fact, is as indestructible as Christ Himself, is as certain of victory as was Christ. On the principle that Christ dwells in the heart by faith, this Body can enter into wrestling with principalities and powers, world rulers of this darkness, spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenlies, and come out victor on the field.



Indestructible life! I think of what the prophet said of Christ here, where He is called...



[b][color=000000] ...a root out of a dry ground[/color][/b]

How does it grow!? Where does its life come from!?


[b][color=660033]For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself[/color][/b]

Ohh my brothers and sisters. I need that life. We need that life - this life which should make the world marvel and say, [i]how do they grow[/i] and [i]where does their life come from[/i]?


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2006/12/31 17:57Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Weeds

Quote:
Brother Mike, I'm so blessed by this word and exchange. I thank God! Thank you brother!



Chris, I can hardly respond to all this just yet, still just absorbing it ... I am truly being blessed by this exchange as well!

Quote:
Just now the thought of weeds comes to mind, something which I would suppose is a part of the curse upon the earth; they have a special reputation for their tenacity in holding onto life and also for choking out other, more desireable things.



[i]That[/i] is just an incredible analogy ... and [i]stubborn[/i]! I might add. Now the opposite comes to mind ... Having this tenacity of faith!

[i]Though he slay me ...[/i]


_________________
Mike Balog

 2006/12/31 20:34Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:another random article

It so happenes that an article on [b]Spiritual Warfare[/b] by [i]T. Austin-Sparks[/i] came up in the random article a short while ago, and rather than let it slip out of view I wanted to at least post a link to it here, so that we could perhaps come back to it.

I'll share a few select qoutes and the link:

[i]...heavenly warfare is in the atmosphere all around us.[/i]

[i]...it is in the Church and in relation to the Church's destiny that the whole kingdom of Satan is to be met and overthrown.[/i]

[i]The exercise and preserving of true heart fellowship with all other Christians - not just with those whom we like but with all - is a field of constant conflict.[/i]

[b][i]Fellowship is not just something that happens. We must fight for it. It is a great factor in the spiritual battle.[/b][/i]


[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=1471]T. Austin-Sparks: Spiritual War[/url]


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/1/1 12:27Profile





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