The late Bill Britton of springfield Missouri has written and taught a great deal on this subject. he points out many problems with the doctrine of the rapture of the church from a very scripturally founded view.

I heard a brother, can't back him because I haven't looked into it yet, but he said that the '70' weeks of daniel was actually FULFILLED with the Messiah coming again. And that most pre-tribers can't do math because it is completely fulfilled. And the 70 weeks only refers to Christ's FIRST coming, not a 'part a' of His second coming.

Anywho. Just an opinion, not much strength but it does go against the math of the pre-tribers.

Till God shows me the truth of the matter. I will be like Keith Green, "Pray for Pre, prepare for Post."

Also, another thing to note even the Chinese church DOESN"T agree on this part of doctrine. Amazing that God is moving mightly, yet they don't have a full agreement on the end time theology. Humorous in a way, but sad in another. Because even though they disagree with one another on this topic, they don't let it divided them, like it does with the American church.

To the Moderator - You said, that, no one knows where the "Secret Rapture," came from. If you re-read my post, you will discover, that it came from a Catholic priest, named Rivera.

I hope you all will re-read Matthew 24. Jesus, plainly, said, He is coming AFTER the tribulation.

One of the 5 virgins that trimmed their lamps. The ones that are Raptured unto the wedding feast of the Lamb.

The other five virgins must loose their heads for salvation during Satan's reign in the temple of God. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. The dead in Christ will rise first. Then those that are left. But, those that are left in the tribulation will not be born again, but will live with Christ on earth, not in heavenly places in Christ Jesus in the Place Jesus Christ is preparing for those that are born again, those that are from the Cross to the rapture, just before the tribulation.

Revelation 6:9-11 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.


Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Believe now and receive Christ and be with Him in His Father's House forever.

Believe in the tribulation and loose your head for not taking the mark of the Beast and dying for the witness of Jesus Christ.

In Christ: PHillip

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Phillip

Eph 2v20, 'Having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets...

The foundation of the apostles?

11 of the 12 apostles were martyred, Jesus himself was crucified. Paul the apostle was beheaded.

Jesus tells us in Matthew 10 that a disciple is not above his master.

If Jesus and the apostles suffered, what makes us suppose we won't suffer?

It is that, the fear of suffering, that brings about a false belief in a pre-trib rapture.

We relate to the 10 plagues of Egypt, God kept Israel from harm during that time, for the glory of His name, due to His promise to Abraham.

However, He dealt with them in the wilderness as He saw fit.

Christians are being slaughtered right now in Islamic and communist countries. It would be nice for them if the 'rapture' were to happen right now, so they can escape torture and death at the hands of their persecutors.

Hebrews 13v3 says 'Remember the prisoners, as if chained with them, those who are mistreated, since you yourselves are in the body also'

That would be more worthy than wasting good time wrangling about pre or post trib rapture.

God bless.

With all due respect to teachers, the Lord wants us to grow up and study the Scriptures, ourselves, as the Bereans, "...who received the Word with all readiness of mind, searching the Scriptures, daily, whether those things were so." Acts 17:11.

When will we go to the Word, and stop depending upon others? Rather, then listening to opinions, let's go to the source.

There is authority, only, in one place - the Word of God.

We are in a spiritual warfare. We are to "walk as He walked." What did Jesus do? He didn't say, "My church says, or so and so says..." He said, "It is written..."

And so should we.

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Cindy

About those '5 virgins' rejected. Where in the world do you get that interpretation??

That parable is simply stating that we are to be ready, for what? The rapture? NO! But for the SECOND COMING OF CHRIST. Let's not twist scripture. That is disgusting what you just did. Twisting scripture completely to bring your case across. If you dont know, you don't know. DONT DARE twist scripture by your opinion.

Brother, I love you just as any good friends would. But seriously, keep in mind that your teaching, and mine, (all of ours) will go before God and He will ask us. "Did you seek Me, on this matter? Or did you twist My Word to fit your opinion?"

Teachers, in any form, will be judged on a HIGHER standard, so be careful.

In all due respect. If this came across too blunt, I'm sorry but I feel that adulteration of the Word of God should be stopped.

The rest of the dead, would be the wicked.

Jesus said, "Not every one that SAITH unto me, Lord,Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that DOETH the will of my Father which is in heaven.

MANY will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? (we might be impressed) and in thy name done many wonderful works?" ("Christians" do works in Jesus' name.)

And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." ("lawlessness") Matthew 7:21-23.

Jesus will say to the ten foolish virgins, "I KNOW YOU NOT." Matthew 25:12

The flip side is "And hereby we do know that we know him, IF we keep his commandments.

He that saith, I KNOW HIM, and keepeth not his commandments, is a LIAR and the truth (Jesus - John 14:6; the law - Ps 119:142 & all his commandments - Ps 119:151) is not in him." 1 John 2:3,4.

If we continue in sin (the "transgression of the law. 1 John 3:4), He does not know us, and we do not know Him - we are lost, forever. (Not my words - His.)

When Jesus gave us, the two "Greatest Commandments," He was quoting the law. Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18.

(The New Covenant is the Old Covenant (the Ten Commandments - Deuteronomy 4:13) law written in our hearts and minds. - Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:26,27)

I run into "Christians," all the time, that, have abused grace to the point, that, they don't think they have to keep His commandments:

"Shall we CONTINUE to sin ("transgress the law") that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Romans 6:1,2. If we are dead to sin, we don't transgress His law, (which, includes the fourth commandment.)

They have a rude awakening coming.

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." Revelation 22:14.

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation, unto all them that obey Him." Hebrews 5:9.