Apostles today? What dose the Bible say?


In Eph. 4:11, “And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; you see what he did. In 12, For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: you see the purpose. In 13, Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: YOU SEE FOR HOW LONG. One of the key words in vs. 13 is Till or in some translations Until. Have we all come into the unity of the faith? No! When we do we will not need Apostles, Pastors Ect.

Some teach that you have to meet two qualifications two be an Apostle; Acts 1:21-22 21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection. If we look at the text it is not talking about the qualifications of an Apostle it is dealing with one taking the place of Judas. Acts 1:20 20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take. Let another take his place. Who is the HIS?

I believe that there are Apostles today. I have a friend that pioneered works in Japan and works in the Philippians and they have connected more than 10 million people to his works. I consider him an Apostle. I also believe some have apostolic ministries who move in deep realms of the Spirit of God. Yet, I do not believe everyone who claims to be an Apostle is an Apostle.

Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

_________________
JOSHUA MEYERS

Let's not get all 'hyped' up on the apostleship. I feel that God has called me to one, but let's not honor one above another.

Anywho, an apostle is simply a missionary. A person who starts something. I think Chip Brogden, in his study of the book of Galatians, stated that an apostle spreads Christ.

I can't remember who I listened to on SI that stated the same thing but to more in-depthness. I thought it was T-Austin Sparks but I don't think so after looking around.

Some teachers say that an apostle had to see Jesus. Which isn't biblical. Others say signs and wonders are to follow them, which I tend to agree with.

2 Corinthians 12:12
The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with all perseverance, by signs and wonders and miracles.

Others say that an apostle is like a father because of Paul's nature towards his calling. Which is alright. I haven't seen any scripture to defend this other than Paul's nature in ministry. Like his way of doing it, he was very personal and very close to the ministry he was entrusted to.

One thing I think is clear, is that an apostle lays the foundation for the Church's walk with Christ. He brings the basics of Christianity. No apostle looks the same as another.

That's just my experience with this word and I'm still learning. Blessings.

Here is a link for a study on it. It states that you must have seen Jesus, but that's not the truth of the Word of God. The rest, after glance, looked fine. Except they say apostles have ceased

http://www.biblicalstudies.com/bstudy/spiritualgifts/ch14.htm

I haven't really found anything on SI to help you with this. Art Katz's message really didn't hit the mark for me. ;-)

_________________
Ron Halverson

I know many people who have been sent out, but are not Apostles.
Everyone sent out = Apostle No
Everyone who has a character like an apostle = Apostle No
Every Missionary = Apostle No

Does Apostle mean the same thing today as it did when written in Scripture?
Or has it been defined differently today.

One thing I’ve noticed in today’s world if one claims to be an Apostle , people say he is full of pride. If one claim to be a Pastor it is OK ???

I know within the whole group of Apostles, there is a subset of Apostles (the 70, the 12, ect.) that were unique for their specific purposes (writing Scripture ect.).

I roofed many years and was considered to be a roofer. I have also seen those who put one or two roofs on and claimed to be a roofer; but they were not roofers.

I’d like to ask any who are Apostles; can you share with me the uniqueness of your ministry today?

_________________
JOSHUA MEYERS

Evangelist. You have said this and that isn't an apostle yet you give no scriptural backing. Brother, any opinion should be thrown in hell. Even mine. Scripture is our basis, not personal experience. I am considered to be a 'pentacostal/charasmatic' but I know the Word of God is our basis NOT personal experience, not like many of my close brothers and sisters.

There are many missionaries that fulfill the scripture *2 Corinthians 12:12
The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with all perseverance, by signs and wonders and miracles.*

Even if they are baptist, methodist, or presbeterian. If someone receives the gospel and their life is changed, THAT is a miracle my brother. A sign is something visable to point to God and that again would be the infiltration of the Gospel into someone's heart and their life changing experience.

You see that the scripture doesn't say healings. And even if it did. A healing of the soul is more important, for what good is there if someone has a perfectally healthy body without eternal life? None.

For me personally, I haven't been 'sent out' yet. God is taking me through training in His Word and I'm writing a book about it by His grace.

My ministry, if it really matters, I see it being a grassroots ministry. One that brings up people within the city to send them out. I'm not called to any country right now, other than America. I feel inner healing, physcially healing, foundational teaching, and revavant teaching is my calling. First to the youth then to all ages.

I also feel the need to go back to the 'old paths' listed in scripture. Where revival and love are natural within the church.

I tend to go out of the normal thinking. I'm an out of the box kind of thinking. Tradition breaker, if you want to say. But Word of God based.

Has this happened in my life? Yes, in part. But God is now working out many character issues and has done a great job. But He is also giving me a strong scriptural foundation.

Lovegrace. First of all I never claimed personal experience. Second of all I agree that opinions are of little value. When I was saying this or that about Apostles; I did not use scriptural backing, because it is a simple universal truth that only requires common sense.
Every Christian Church that believes in modern day Apostles (that I’m aware of) would agree with this simple logic. If you do not agree; then you believe: everyone sent out is an apostle, everyone that has characteristics of an apostle is an apostle, and every missionary is an apostle. Think over this, and if you still want scriptural backing I’ll give you as much as you want…Here I’ll give you one Philip the evangelist was sent out. Was he an apostle? NO! He was an evangelist!

Can SOME being sent out be an Apostle? Yes
Can SOME with the characteristics of an Apostle indeed be an Apostle? Yes
Can SOME missionaries be Apostles? Yes

Once again I’m looking for someone who can share the uniqueness of the apostolic working in their ministry today.

_________________
JOSHUA MEYERS

Brother Ron, yes, I do have someone in mind. But it wasn't brother Keith. I see him as being more of an evangelist. If we look at an apostle as one who comes in and does the foundational work, then I would say brother Keith is more of one who comes in and helps in building upon that foundation. Which I suppose could in some sense fit in with the apostle gifting…but I know that brother Keith considers himself to be an evangelist. He speaks and moves on.

KingJimmy, thank you for your excellent explanation! You said some really good things that were very helpful.

I agree with Lovegrace that the gift of apostleship is not to be above another gift. We are all servants of Christ and members of the Bride of Christ. It is amazing to study the Body and see how God has gifted different people in areas of serving.

Lovegrace, I read that article and I was wanting something that gave the other side. :-o So, if you come upon anything, please let me know.

Thanks for everyone's input. This has been very helpful...at least no one has come out that this gifting has ceased from the church!

Technically speaking, those who claim to be called by God as missionaries have absolutely no Scriptural backing for such a claim. The Bible knows nothing of somebody called to be a missionary. Never in all the New Testament is there any mention of somebody being a missionary.

However, if one does a study of the word "missionary," one will find it ultimately comes from the word "apostle." If memory serves correct, the word "missionary" is a latinized version of the greek word for apostle. Thus, grammatically and Biblically speaking, anybody claiming to be called as a missionary is technically claiming to be an apostle.

Thus, every God called missionary is actually called to be an apostle. To say otherwise is to say that not every God called apostle is called to be an apostle. Which, of course, is absurd.

_________________
Jimmy H