hi, i've written a response to this article,but i'm not very good at computer stuff and i accidentally
put it in a new thread called "political idolatry" i would type it again but it would take me too long. does anyone know how to transfer it to the right thread? :-( bonni

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Bonni

Dear brothers and sisters,

During and after my devotions this morning, the thought occured to me that I should take the opportunity to clarify things I expressed in an earlier post in response to the article by brother Andrew in this thread.

I would like to make it clear that I wholly agree with the notion that placing trust in political institutions, persons, or any other earthly form or means of governance and the promotion of the common good of mankind, can be, or can lead to, an expression of idolatry. I would also encourage warnings given against such, including the one given in this thread by brother Andrew.

So, anything that I expressed before should be understood with that in mind.

Thank you brothers and sisters,

Christopher Joel Dandrow

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Christopher Joel Dandrow

ChrisJD,

No worries! We know where you're coming from bro and in Whom your faith is placed...we were just figuring things out together.

Blessings,

MC

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Mike Compton

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but Dr. James Dobson seems to fit the mold that this writer has cast...

[b][color=CC0033]NOTE: This Post is by Bonni - who doesn't know how to cut and paste yet so i did it for her.[/color][/b]

i appreciate this article,i have had these same thoughts.it makes me think of the woman riding on the beast's back in rev.the false church so entertwined with politics.

God is the one who sets up kingdoms and He brings them down. Jesus said to pilate " you would have no power over me except it were given to you from above. God has given satan power or "permission if
you will" to give the kingdoms of this world to whomever he chooses, God in His sovereinty can use satan as a tool to bring about His divine will.
the bible says that satan tempted Christ with this offer.

God told us to pray for our leaders, but He never said we had a right to life,liberty,and the pursuit of happiness.

God will...glorify His name regardless of whether pilate, nebuchanezzer,or the antichrist is in power. we are to pray...like daniel...like Jesus!

soon God will come and the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of our Lord,and He shall reign forever and ever.amen!

Saints, our times coming!

bonni


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many preach Christ,but not many live Christ,that will be my aim - robert c chapman

Sister Bonni wrote:

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Jeff Marshalek

Sis Bonni wrote;
"God told us to pray for our leaders, but He never said we had a right to life,liberty,and the pursuit of happiness."


i think we do have such God given rights, but in which direction and admonition do we seek? ...

[b]SEEKING SATAN -[/b]

Life - John.12: 25 - He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Liberty - Prov.14:12 - There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Happiness - Mark.8:36 - For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?


OR

[b]SEEKING CHRIST -[/b]

Life - John.10:10 - I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. (and i'm talking strictly spiritual here and not material prosperity)

Liberty - John.8:36 - If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Happiness - 1Pet.314 - But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

Bro Jeff you wrote;
"This is the only Scripture that I have found in which we are encouraged to pray for the kings and all who are in authority..."

Are you saying that because it's only mentioned once that somehow it has less validy or weight of scriptural subjects that appear more often?

i ask only because 2Tim.3:16 says: ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness ...

Which means to me that even if only ststed once, Holy Spirit breathed it into the Bible writer for a reason, perhaps in this case an "instruction in righteousness" ...

With this in mind i have a tendency to agree with the following;

PRAYING FOR OUR GOVERNMENT LEADERS
http://www.abetterhope.com/prayer/leaders.html


With this, especially in regards America and it's political system, i find the following scripture most important, especially in regards the vote;

Let every soul be in subjection to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those who exist are ordained by God. Therefore he who resists the authority, withstands the ordinance of God; and those who withstand will receive to themselves judgment. For rulers are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. Do you desire to have no fear of the authority? Do that which is good, and you will have praise from the same, for he is a servant of God to you for good. But if you do that which is evil, be afraid, for he doesn't bear the sword in vain; for he is a minister of God, an avenger for wrath to him who does evil. Therefore you need to be in subjection, not only because of the wrath, but also for conscience' sake. For this reason you also pay taxes, for they are ministers of God's service, attending continually on this very thing - Romans 13:1-6

With all of the ills of America, i'd personally still rather be here than anywhere else ... As i also think that if so many of us saints in America weren't so self centered, guised in our spiritually being above it all politically but just as materially grubbing as the next guy, perhaps America wouldn't be as ill as she is now ... Up until Pres Bush it seems that not only did a lot of saints not even concider the power of our vote as Christians, but a whole lot of us were'nt even praying in regards America's leadership plight ... i know i wasn't, until (as i believe) Holy Spirit woke me up to "cause and effect" ... As in America the political and economic entity is about to be really adversly "affected" not due to the mechanations of the unGodly, but "cause" of the spiritual stupor and laxity of the Godly within ...


Bro. Jeff you wrote;
"But what does Paul say what we should pray for? "that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence."


i don't believe what you've quoted is what Paul said we are to pray for, but rather if we hold up our governmental leaders (which Romans calls His ministers of service to us) then we can/may have "a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence" under that government oversight ...

Over the past 50 years in America things have societally progressively gotten worse ... In a nation back then whose claiming of Christ/Christianity was even higher by percentage than now, whose fault is our present? ... i personally think the fault lies at the doorstep of The Church, because apparently our light wasn't shinning as it should and our salt not savory enough ... Why? ... Because we we're quick to reject any participation and input politically because we were too enthralled in dashing around after the material ... Then when unGodliness prevails we're quick to form religious committes in comdemnation of what the nation has become, while stoning those whom God has commited to point the finger back at ourselves ... We're kinda like Adam and Eve, blaming the nation/government/economy God put us in as to why we've become poor, blind, and naked ... There is a very good reason why "judgment begins first in the house of our Lord" ...

We're supposed to know better ... :-(