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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : 'Faith' in what - or who?

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 Re: 'Faith' in what - or whom

Quote:
That is my point also, notice I said [b]know[/b] the chair will hold you.

OK. Let me tease this out a little bit more.....

When you say you 'know' the chair will hold you, you are depending entirely on your human reasoning. In fact, you have NO guarantee that the chair will hold you. You are trusting previous human experience - literally [i]experimental truth[/i].

I'm not being obtuse, really. The kind of faith you are putting in 'know'ing the chair will hold you, although it appears at first sight to be sound and dependable, is strictly limited.

For instance, if I asked you to stake your life on your faith that the chair would hold you, how many checks would you want to have made on the strength and state of repair of the chair, before you would put your life on the line for it?

Whereas, when God speaks to a person, it is a totally convincing life-changing word, which commands our utmost obedience and even, if necesary, our very lives - no questions asked.

 2006/11/13 6:19
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Sis wrote:

Quote:
Whereas, when God speaks to a person, it is a totally convincing life-changing word, which commands our utmost obedience and even, if necesary, our very lives - no questions asked.



I agree with your first thought..."when God speaks to a person, it is a totally convincing life-changing word..." When I first heard and realized and understood this that you have written, it was life changing. I knew that God speaks, and I then knew by what means faith is germinated in man.

The second part of your thought, "which commands our utmost obedience..." I have found this to relate to our God given power of self determination. This is the point where if we choose to obey, we find something new about the "Life" that God has determined the means by which He saves us. When we grow in understanding, we then see His faithfulness, His glory, His love for us. From this continued path of walking with Him, trust takes root in our hearts. As trust grows, so does our hope for all things that we find in Him. This then becomes the reason why we choose to obey more readily to the ways of the cross and the washing and renewing, and the filling that causes our hearts to cry out to Him continually.

This type of faith was given to us as an example in the life of Abraham.

God Bless
In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/11/13 6:37Profile









 Re:

Faith is not a gift of God unless circumstances, good or bad, can be seen as the means to obtaining it. A reprobate is uncapable. His mind is made up against God and is snapped shut to any [grace] influence that would point him in His direction. The Pharoah of the Exodus, is a good example.
:-(

 2006/11/13 8:19
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:

dorcas wrote:
Quote:
That is my point also, notice I said [b]know[/b] the chair will hold you.

OK. Let me tease this out a little bit more.....

When you say you 'know' the chair will hold you, you are depending entirely on your human reasoning. In fact, you have NO guarantee that the chair will hold you. You are trusting previous human experience - literally [i]experimental truth[/i].


First of all, when aren't you depending entirely on your human reasoning?

Did you ever pray for God to do smething and had faith that He would, then God does not do what you had faith in Him to do what you prayed?

you had NO guarantee that the prayer would be granted you.
Same as the Chair.

Quote:
I'm not being obtuse, really. [u]The [b]kind[/b] of faith[/u] you are putting in 'know'ing the chair will hold you, although it appears at first sight to be sound and dependable, is strictly limited.


This is the problem, there is only one [b]kind[/b] of faith.

Faith = trust
Faith = belief
Faith = obediance
How many [b]kinds[/b] of [u]trust[/u], [u]belief[/u], or [u]obediance[/u] is there?

Quote:
For instance, if I asked you to stake your life on your faith that the chair would hold you,


That would be haveing faith in faith.
To have faith [u][b]in[/b] the chair[/u] would be guarenteeing that it will hold me [b]then[/b] haveing faith that it will hold me.

Quote:
Whereas, when God speaks to a person, it is a totally convincing life-changing word, which commands [b]our utmost obedience[/b] and even, if necesary, our very lives - no questions asked.



You could say, "which commands our utmost faithfulleness"

Quote:
rookie wrote:
I have found this to relate to our God given power of self determination. [b]This is the point where if we choose to obey,[/b] we find something new about the "Life" that God has determined the means by which He saves us.


Again, you could say, "This is the point where if we choose to have faith"
And
Quote:
trust takes root in our hearts. As trust grows, so does our hope for all things that we find in Him.


could say, "faith takes root in our hearts. As faith grows, so does our hope for all things that we find in Him. This then becomes the reason why we choose to be faithful more readily to the ways of the cross.....

Please, answer this question;
I will pose a question:
Would you rather have all the faith in the world that 1/2 an inch of ice will hold you when you walk on it?
Or
No faith at all in 3ft. of ice will not hold you and walk on it?

 2006/11/13 10:38Profile









 Re: 'Faith' in what - or whom

Logic asked

Quote:
First of all, when aren't you depending entirely on your human reasoning?

Matthew 7 (KJV) (Jesus speaking)
24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

John y
45 Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought him?

46 The officers answered, Never man spake like this man.

47 Then answered them the Pharisees, Are ye also deceived?


Who was using human reasoning here?


Quote:
Did you ever pray for God to do smething and had faith that He would, then God does not do what you had faith in Him to do what you prayed?

you had NO guarantee that the prayer would be granted you.
Same as the Chair.

Logic,

I think your question and answer here, demonstrate my point perfectly. This is why we do NOT depend on our own reasoning.

We [i]cease[/i] to pray for things in hope, which come from our own mind, and we seek the mind of God first.... we wait to hear from Him and pray what He gives us to pray. This is the essence of praying in the Spirit.

(It may have nothing to do with praying in tongues. I mention this as I have the impression some people think 'praying in the Spirit' is another way of defining 'praying in tongues', or vice versa.)

This way - by seeking His mind first - it is unlikely we will pray for anything the Lord cannot give us, or, anything which is outside His will.


So then, having heard His word, and prayed into it, we can be assured of receiving it, because when we [i]receive[/i] His word, it engenders [i]faith[/i], which is the evidence (or substance), of things not (as yet) seen.

 2006/11/13 14:21
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

The more we trust in the Faith of the Son of
God the less we ask for. Knowing that it is the Faith of Jesus Christ that is ruling our life the more we trust that He and His Father are certainly more qualified to make our lives pleasing to God. The Holy Spirit is here for nothing less that to give us the Mind of Christ and to bring us to the Truth He said He would give us by the Holy Spirit He prayed for us to receive in us forever. His Faith, His temple, which is me, His life, His Love, His all in all, which is who we are, Christians in this world as Christ is.

Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.

Who are we the Church to be subject to?

If wives to husbands in everything, how much more the Church are we to be subject to Him.

1Jo 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as He is, so are we in this world.

His Faith, my faith, knowing my mind is His Mind and being renewed to that effect from the old man I used to be.

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;

Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

His Faith brings us to true holiness and to true new creatures in Christ Jesus.

In the Faith of Christ unto perfection.

Colossians 1:22-29 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/11/13 21:47Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Please, answer this question;
Would you rather have all the faith in the world that 1/2 an inch of ice will hold you when you walk on it?
Or
No faith at all in 3ft. of ice will not hold you and walk on it?
I am curious of y'alls answer.

 2006/11/13 22:11Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Luk 17:6 And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.

I cannot move trees and my faith would not make any difference in the thickness of the Ice. For all the faith in the world without Christ is as a clanging cymbal and I am nothing, so it would not matter how thick the Ice was, I would either fall through the Ice or not and no better next time which one to chose. If I did not know how thick the Ice was How could I choose, they both look the same, that is the only faith I have.

you can have great faith in thin ice and drown
but you can have no faith in thick ice and walk on water, but by the faith of Jesus Christ you don't need Ice to walk on living water.

The Faith of Christ truly lets me see which one to choose when it comes to the things of the Kingdom of Heaven.

What is your answer?

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/11/14 2:20Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Christinyou wrote:
The more we trust in the Faith of the Son of
God the less we ask for. Knowing that it is the Faith of Jesus Christ that is ruling our life the more we trust that He and His Father are certainly more qualified to make our lives pleasing to God.
Phillip



That tiny prep "of" makes all the difference when speaking OF the faith we are purposed, by God, to obtain/learn. Once born again, it is the only Faith pleasing to Him. "Deep calls to Deep". Father calls to the life of His Son within us. Is there sufficient OF Himself within us, to respond.

Orm

 2006/11/14 6:55









 Re: 'Faith' in what - or whom

Logic asked

Quote:
Please, answer this question;
Would you rather have all the faith in the world that 1/2 an inch of ice will hold you when you walk on it?
Or
No faith at all in 3ft. of ice will not hold you and walk on it?
I am curious of y'alls answer.

Can I please clarify 'faith in the world'?

What does that mean? Or did you mean 'word'?


EDIT: Logic, it is clear that you reject the scriptural definition of faith as defined by Paul in Romans 10.

How can you maintain this stance [i]against[/i] the word of God?

 2006/11/14 11:03





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