| Poster | Thread | MisterCheez
Member
Joined: 2006/2/22
Posts: 96
Colorado
| | Considering Election & Volition Through Questions Alone | | Hi all,
In light of the endless debate in Christianity about election and volition (free will), I'd like to try something interesting. Instead of debating the issue, could we investigate it by assembling a master list of questions?
Personally, I'm trying to understand what God says about it. Having a list of questions to consider and answer with scripture would be a great starting place and may foster understanding of one another. Once we have a decent list, I'm glad to make a word doc with all of them available.
Regardless of your personal position, please list any questions you think an honest seeker of truth might have about election and/or free will. NO ANSWERS PLEASE, this can be done later, personally or in another thread.
Blessings,
Brian
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Brian Erickson
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|  2006/10/30 11:16 | Profile | MisterCheez
Member
Joined: 2006/2/22
Posts: 96
Colorado
| | Re: Some questions to start: | | Here are some questions I thought of:
If a sovereign God chooses to allow men whether or not to believe in Christ, would He be any less sovereign?
Is the debate between election and free will worthwhile or merely theological sport?
Does ignoring/avoiding the debate excuse one from accountability to God?
Is God’s character devalued, insulted, defamed by not taking a side?
Is a balance between God’s sovereignty and human will even possible?
Can God ‘limit’ His own sovereignty by allowing man volition? Could this be a governmental decision regarding spiritual laws, just as He institued laws such as gravity in nature - not that He had to, but that He decided to.
Is election always unto salvation, or could it be referring to God’s plan for a person in time?
Is free will more loving than election?
If God has given us consciences to convict us in regards to the law, should man heed his conscience when it screams out that election is unjust?
If Christ died for and loves ‘all men’, ‘the world’ and ‘whosoever’, why then are not all saved?
Does forgiveness have to be ‘appropriated’?
Does salvation by grace alone necessarily imply that man is incapable of choosing God? Isn’t grace paying a debt we never could and making the application of that payment available to any who will believe?
Since it is impossible for men to be saved apart from Christ’s sacrifice, how would free will save man by works?
In conceiving God, which God is mightier: The one Who programs man in order to achieve His eternal purposes, or the one Who allows man freedom of choice and still achieves His eternal purposes?
Doesn’t ‘love’ mandate choice? Without volition, how can love exist? Didn’t God pay for man’s sin because he chose to, not because He had to? In a similar way, weren’t Adam and Eve given volition so they could love God?
Does justice demand that every human who ends up in Hell earned it through choice? Does a just and loving God really create ignoble souls for the sole purpose of consuming them with wickedness and punishing them for it eternally?
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Brian Erickson
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| | 2006/10/30 11:17 | Profile |
| | Re: Considering Election & Volition Through Questions Alone | | Quote:
Personally, I'm trying to understand what God says about it. Having a list of questions to consider and answer with scripture would be a great starting place
I'm looking at your list of questions so far, MCh, and I'm wondering how easily scripture will offer answers.
I think you may be looking for examples of men (or women) who exercised choice, or of whom God asked a decision......
I will post some questions, next. |
| | 2006/10/31 10:20 | |
| | Re: Considering Election & Volition Through Questions Alone | | I think your questions give some of your answers away..... ;-)
Question 1
Acts 5:32 (KJV)
And we are his witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
How does God define obedience?
How would you know if you were obeying Him?
How would you know if you were disobeying Him?
Question 2
John 1 (Young)
9 He was the true Light, which doth enlighten every man, coming to the world;
10 in the world he was, and the world through him was made, and the world did not know him:
11 to his own things he came, and his own people did not receive him;
12 but as many as did receive him to them he gave authority to become sons of God--to those believing in his name,
13 who--not of blood nor of a will of flesh, nor of a will of man but--of God were begotten.
Is it possible to [i]receive[/i] Him, without having [i]obeyed[/i] Him first?
What is the difference between [i]obeying[/i] God, and [i]receiving[/i] God?
Is it possible to obey Him (in some measure), without having first received Him (in some measure)?
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| | 2006/10/31 10:38 | | MisterCheez
Member
Joined: 2006/2/22
Posts: 96
Colorado
| | Re: Considering Election & Volition Through Questions Alone | | Quote:
I think your questions give some of your answers away.....
My heart definitely inclines one way. :-)
Here's another:
In light of the abundance of scriptures apparently supporting each position, are election and free will necessarily contradictory? Could both exist at the same time?
As Chuck Smith says, "God didn't ask us to reconcile the two." Or as Zac Poonen described a gate which, on the outside reads to the effect of, "come all who would be saved" and on the inside reads "chosen since the foundation of the world."
Is human logic getting in the way of supernatural noncontradiction?
_________________
Brian Erickson
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| | 2006/10/31 16:21 | Profile | sermonindex
Moderator
Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 39795
Canada
Online! | | Re: | | Can we question something that God has so clearly laid open in Scripture?
Are we willing to look at the entirety of Scriptures in considering the doctrine of election?
Do we still believe that the Holy Spirit of promise can still lead us into all truth?
Are we able to hear the voice of God or are we living in a sinful life that does not attribute us to hear God at all?
"supernatural noncontradiction" - we speak of a wisdom not of this world but from above.
I firmly believe that those that are "spiritual" can accept the unfathomable truths of scripture even if it does line up with shallow human reasoning even at its best.
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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
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| | 2006/10/31 16:30 | Profile | IRONMAN
Member
Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS
| | Re: | | MrC
Quote:
Is human logic getting in the way of supernatural noncontradiction?
BINGO!!!
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Farai Bamu
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| | 2006/10/31 17:13 | Profile | IRONMAN
Member
Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS
| | Re: | | bro greg
Quote:
I firmly believe that those that are "spiritual" can accept the unfathomable truths of scripture even if it does line up with shallow human reasoning even at its best.
BINGO again. there is no contradiction about this in the mind of God, the 2 are 1 serving 1 purpose, the ultimate purpose, His glory.
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Farai Bamu
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| | 2006/10/31 17:15 | Profile | linda7
Member
Joined: 2006/4/23
Posts: 101
West Sussex, England
| | Re: | | MisterCheez wrote
Quote:
Does salvation by grace alone necessarily imply that man is incapable of choosing God? Isnt grace paying a debt we never could and making the application of that payment available to any who will believe?
If Jesus had not first apprehended Paul on the Damascus road, would Paul have been saved?
If Paul had not accepted that Jesus was The Messiah, would Paul have been saved?
There are two parts and in that order.
Do we have a supernatural experience to testify that Jesus has met with us?
Linda
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Linda
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| | 2006/11/2 6:57 | Profile | JaySaved
Member
Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri
| | Re: | | According to Romans 8:29-30:
"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."
1) How many of the foreknown are predestined?
2) How many of the predestined are called?
3) How many of the called are justified?
4) How many of the justified are glorified?
Who's sins did Christ atone for at the cross?
How can a person believe that salvation is by grace and not by works and at the same time believe that God chose them because of something meritous they had done?
If God chooses to elect a nation of people, isn't he electing certain individuals in that nation as well?
In John 6, why does Jesus say that no one whom the Father brings to him will be lost and at the same time many of his disciples leave and never come back?
When the Bible says that someone is an enemy of God (James 4:3-5), does that mean that God is fighting them or they are fighting God?
What does the Bible mean when it refers to the 'elect'?
Why does the Bible refer to the 'chosen' so much?
In the parable of the wedding feast in Matthew 22, why does the King single out the man without the wedding garment, have him bound hand and foot to be cast into outer darkness and then make the statement 'For many are called, but few are chosen?' |
| | 2006/11/2 9:21 | Profile |
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