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 Re:

Quote:
Krispy, I believe context is everything....



Love ya, Dorcas, but I didnt take anything out of context. Saying I did doesnt make it true.

Krispy

 2006/10/26 16:15
boomatt
Member



Joined: 2006/3/20
Posts: 235
fredericksburg, Virginia

 Re:

sentry

With all do respect, David Wilkerson might have started Teen Challenge, but he is not the head of Teen Challenge currently, so you can't use David's name anymore, when Associating David Wilkerson and Teen Challenge.

You should ask her how big her house is. No really, how many millions of dollars did it cost her? she has her own security team. Just to note is costs about 35 dollars to support a missionary or a child with Gospel For Asia, how many missionaries, or children could she have supported. But no, instead, she bought an oversize house, with expensive jewerly. Does this sound like a commited christian to you?

Please read this link for more info on her:

http://www.letusreason.org/Popteac17.htm

Quote:
So who are we?...what do YOU do for the cause of Chirst?



Well, one thing you can do is warn people about her obviously false teaching.


_________________
Matt Kroelinger

 2006/10/26 16:36Profile
Munchkin
Member



Joined: 2006/10/4
Posts: 31
London, Ingerrrland

 Re: Ray Comfort/Joyce Meyer

I saw Ray Comfort evangelising, and all I know is he made a girl cry. Not out of repentance, but out of her feeling bullied by him. That seems unacceptable to me. Evangelism is of God, but scaring people away from God isn't. It isn't about *us*, and about how like Paul et al we are - isn't that just prideful? It's about how many people can be saved, and scaring them to tears isn't the way forward. Kirk Cameron uses a different approach, but is just as effective.

The issue with Joyce Meyer isn't her gender (that verse is often taken out of context, usually by men) but her beliefs. If she is effective in her evangelising, then as far as we're concerned, that should be the end of it. Her beliefs, and her house are between her and The Father. She'll have to explain that to Him one day. But we have no right to "warn" people off her. In what way are any of us more perfect than she?

Matthew 7:3-5
And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

This thread feels all tense and ugly... I think maybe that means this whole thread is drifting away from Him.


_________________
Anna

 2006/10/26 16:54Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 if God can make an ass speak...

bro Krispy

Quote:
IRONMAN... notice that Paul did not share that opinion with you. He did not exhort the Christians in Rome to listen to false teachers because God might speak through them. No, he commanded that they mark (or brand) false teachers, and avoid them. Listening to them waiting for some truth that may come out of their mouths is akin to searching thru a dumpster behind Olive Garden in the hopes you might from some food in there. Why not just go into the Olive Garden and order dinner? At God's Olive Garden... dinner is free! We dont even need to leave a tip!



but then didn't Paul also say that whether the gospel is preached out of strife or some other motive or with sincerity he rejoices because Christ is being preached anyway?He're the thing, Paul knew that even if the gospel was preached from impure motives, God could still move and people could be drawn to Him.i'm sure it's a safe bet that despite some of the fallacies of her ministry (which we agree on)and perhaps some have been led to hell, some have been led to Christ in truth. i was catholic before i was born again and that was my first exposure to God. The fact that we know of the fallacies of Catholicism and popery does not negate the fact that for many people, that is where they first meet God and God takes it from there. just like you were in the WOF and you found some fallacies about it but wasnt that where you first began to learn of GOd? how is the gospel preached there?out of pure motives or impure. bro Krispy my point is this, if we can be honest with ourselves, we have a lot of false things which we each hold to and as such one can take the liberty of saying "well so and so holds to this and so he is a false teacher" that could be said about us all to some degree. there have been some things which you have said in the past and things which i have said and i'm sure many of us here have said which we have had to recant because we were wrong. we both could be branded false teachers in that regard...or maybe even heretics.

i admit i should have clarified what i meant when i said not to write her off completely. i don't listen much to joyce meyer, or jakes, or whoever but if God says "Here is something you need to check out" i'm on it and i glean from it whatever He has for me to glean and move on. i've not always shown perfect character on these boards and neither have you but we both have learned from eachother no?

i liked your analogy about sifting through a dumpster for food. i suppose we all have to do that to some extent as it pertains to the things we say. sometimes we spew forth a lot of garbage and sometimes God speaks through us, we have to learn to discern which is which and that is really the point of all this.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/10/26 17:05Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro kk

Quote:
Mat 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.



this was rather timely bro, i hope we don't fall into that number out of being complacent or anything else for that matter...i pray we combat this thing with all diligence...


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/10/26 17:10Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Matt
you know when you said this, it got me thinking...

Quote:
You should ask her how big her house is. No really, how many millions of dollars did it cost her? she has her own security team. Just to note is costs about 35 dollars to support a missionary or a child with Gospel For Asia, how many missionaries, or children could she have supported. But no, instead, she bought an oversize house, with expensive jewerly. Does this sound like a commited christian to you?



the word does say "don't muzzle the ox when it is threshing corn" that being said, i don't think the cow/ox should eat all the corn either...but i wonder how much we could do if we spent less on some of those things we buy just because. i don't think it necessary to have such an expensive/oppulent home but God got on my case about that some time ago showing me that my discontent with that had to do with my own knowing that if i were in a similar situation, i would do the same. not sure if that's true of all here but that was me. perhaps this is something we ought to consider, if i were in her shoes, would i do anything different?probably not.in the end God dealt with me by letting me know that i needed to take care of what He wants me to take care of. JM and all the others will have to answer to God one day, but so will i, so will all of us.

i guess a lot could have been done with the money spent on that house but i wonder what could be done using the money we spend on say, movies, starbucks, fancy gadgets we don't need, clothes we never wear, jewelery (though it may be cheap) to name a few. i guess i feel that if we see clearly the faults of others we ought not repeat them or we should more closly examine ourselves to see if we aren't guilty of the same things ourselves...

something to consider perhaps?


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/10/26 17:28Profile
K_DAY
Member



Joined: 2006/7/28
Posts: 144
Ann Arbor, MI

 Re:

Munchkin-

I think we may need to be a little more firm-footed than you suggest.

Quote:
If she is effective in her evangelising, then as far as we're concerned, that should be the end of it.



I disagree. The end does not always justify the means. And in this case, the end my be potentially thousands of souls who are accepting a false gospel based on false premises and recieving a false sense of eternal security. The means is materialism.

Quote:
Her beliefs, and her house are between her and The Father. She'll have to explain that to Him one day.



Her beliefs would be only between her and the Father if she did not broadcast them on national television to millions of viewers.

Quote:
But we have no right to "warn" people off her. In what way are any of us more perfect than she?



Where do you get that we need to be perfect before we are qualified to warn people of flase doctrines?

I Timothy 1:3
"As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer."

Also reference the passage in 2 Peter chp 2 on false teachers.

I have noticed that you tend to reduce most issues to being between "you and the Father." From the suicide thread, you wrote:

Quote:
It seems to me issues like suicide and abortion are wholly personal, between the individual and God Himself.



Many issues are in fact not only between a person and God. Suicide is wrong because that much is clear scripturally. Abortion is wrong because the Bible says so. False teachers should be exposed because:

"They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping." -2 Peter 2:1-2

And this is not an issue of self-righteousness. It is an issue of honoring and respecting the Word of God and holding others to the same standard as I would expect to be held to myself.

-K_DAY

 2006/10/26 17:34Profile
CaptainFant
Member



Joined: 2006/7/2
Posts: 4


 Re:

I think we should have a bit more faith in Ray, i think one thing he realises is to use the opportunities he gets. He has used Spurgeon's saying before "you can point out forever the crookedness of a stick but as soon as you place a straight stick next to it, its crookedness becomes instantly apparent". Those of you who have listened to Ray understand his position on modern gospel and its complete danger. Although Joyce is huge modern gospel, a lot of her listeners tune in not knowing any better and it doesn't mean that they are unbelievers. They just need guidance. A lot of people listen to these preachers because of ignorance. I think it was great Ray could show the truth, he didnt need to smash down, just show the truth. He has confronted people which is very important, but he understands that its not just preach and rebuke.

Ray said a lot of today's preaching is wrong, he showed the necessity of the Law several times. He didn't join in one of her conference things, but sat down with her and her audience and taught them biblical evangelism. Lets not be too quick to diss one of our favourites.

 2006/10/26 18:13Profile
Sentry
Member



Joined: 2004/2/5
Posts: 119
West Monroe, Louisiana

 Re:

Quote:

boomatt wrote:
sentry

With all do respect, David Wilkerson might have started Teen Challenge, but he is not the head of Teen Challenge currently, so you can't use David's name anymore, when Associating David Wilkerson and Teen Challenge.




With all due respect, I know that.

However, I was only making a point that one of the most successful ministries in the World (Teen Challenge), utilizes some of her material.

That was all I was saying.

Anyway...I realize much of what many of you are saying is true, and it grieves me.

I shall pray for her...and for you.

Mark


_________________
Mark

 2006/10/26 19:41Profile
Sentry
Member



Joined: 2004/2/5
Posts: 119
West Monroe, Louisiana

 Re:

Quote:

Munchkin wrote:
This thread feels all tense and ugly... I think maybe that means this whole thread is drifting away from Him.



I agree, sounds more like a lynch mob.


_________________
Mark

 2006/10/26 19:46Profile





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