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 Re:

Just a couple quick replies I'd like to make...

Logic wrote:

Quote:
I think Ray just wants to get the truth out no matter what. He is on TBN, & we all know about that network.



So it makes it ok? [b]2Co 6:14[/b] [i]Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?[/i]

Geroldine wrote:

Quote:
But Evangelism? Really do you think women are not allowed to evangelise? I may have mis read it in that case i apologise.



No, I wasnt as clear as I should have been. What I was addressing was that Joyce claims God has called her to be a pastor/teacher/minister/evangelist. Surely women can evangelize... but the scripture also address usurping authority over a man. She is a "teacher", and a teacher has authority. She is teaching men. Scripture clearly forbids that in Romans 16:17. It couldnt be more plain. But yes, women are to evangelize... you should be evangelizing everyday... but not as a teacher/minister as she is.

Sermonindex wrote:

Quote:
But also I respect some of the opinions expressed in this thread and perhaps at times we would wish that those men that have the truth would stand for it apart from those that misuse it. Oh how we need a John the Baptist to set us straight.



Amen... and I agree. Truth is truth no matter the forum. My contention is that appearing on her show lends a certain amount of credibility to her "ministry" on behalf of Ray... and I wonder if perhaps more harm than good was done. More deception than truth.

Krispy

 2006/10/26 13:22
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Ray Comfort's ministry is evangelism and he is wishing to get that message out to all Christians, I don't think that being on that show is utter comprimise but it will offend some. I am of a more mature mind to see that there is good fruit being accomplished over this, I praise God the gospel is being preached.



I think it is important to point out that we don't know the full extent of their visit and that much could be edited out, etc. I think shining the light into some of these peoples lives can be a good thing. As I mentioned about Jesus' method with the 7 churches- all is not utterly lost with these people. They can make amends if they see the Truth and turn from the false. Sometimes this is a process and God brings folk along. it may not be a slam dunk like we would wish- but then again a lot of what we do is likely hindering the work of God more than helping it. Just being honest. I am certain that God is trying to steer these folk into truth and salvage what is good- to strengthen those things that remain, etc.

God Bless,

-Robert


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Robert Wurtz II

 2006/10/26 13:35Profile
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 digging through the muck for some nuggets

bro Patrick

Quote:
I agree Krispy, I also like and appreciate Ray, but this has severely tarnished his name. Ray speaks of evangelism, but does he realize and speak the fact that this womans false message has helped the devil damn countless untold souls to hell? Did he confront her on the issue that her false message is helping Satan damn souls to hell? NO! To teach this woman to use the law to show sinners their sinful state and produce guilt is counter productive. Don't be surprised if she starts preaching the law in her conferences and instead of leading the convicted souls to Jesus, she leads them straight to her false gospel and Word Faith teaching.



why don't you confront her? why don't we all? if we have it together shouldn't we be crying out louder?most of us are probably guilty of not saying a peep when someone says a foul word in front of us, do we have courage enough to go out and show sis JOcye the right way?

Quote:
Do you think Jesus or Paul or Stephen or Peter or John or Isaiah or Jeremiah or Amos etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. would have gone on the Joyce Meyers show to talk about evangelism like Ray? What do you think these men who the Scriptures lay down as our example would have done on the Joyce Meyers show?



it doesn't matter what they would have done,they are not here. what matters is what shall WE do? that is what God shall ask of us all...

i must say though that in spite of some of the excesses of some of these ministers on TBN, God has taught me some things through them. if God decides to take hold of one of them and speak we ought to listen.it's like digging through the muck for some nuggets of gold. think about gold mining. do you know how many tons of earth need to be excavated and processed to yield a bar of gold? a whole lot. perhaps we ought to do the same with some of these preachers, rather than write them off totally, we ought to sift through what they say and learn to discern what is from God and what is not.

for example this whole Word of Faith thing, there is something to be said about naming and claiming something which lines up with what God is working to do. it is another thing however to name and claim/blab and grab something out of our own lusts...i think of when Elijah said that no rain would fall on Israel and it didn't rain...Peter told that lame man at the temple "get up and walk" that right there is a Word of Faith.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/10/26 13:45Profile









 Re: digging through the muck for some nuggets

IRONMAN... my brother... you know I love you... but we are about as far apart from each other on this topic as can be.

TBN is trash TV draped in enough truth to be perhaps the ultimate in deception.

As for going to Joyce about her error... I cant. Oh, I could write to her, but she'll never receive it. However, many people have confronted her about her many erroneous teachings and also about her disobedience to scripture concerning being a woman minister... and she has publicly mocked them in the studio and from the stage. I've witnessed it myself.

There comes a point where you have to shake the dust off your sandels and just warn people about her.

Krispy

 2006/10/26 13:51
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Krispy

Quote:
So it makes it ok? 2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?



i thought Joyce Myers is a believer, misguided about some things perhaps (as we all are) but a believer nonetheless. how then does the above scripture apply if she is a believer? i think a more appropriate word for this situation is that in which Paul said those of us who are strong must bear the infirmities of the weak.

i don't agree with everything that she says or does but i'm not about to miss out on anything God may say through her or anyone else for that matter...i intend to receive all i can so i can do all i can on this side and enter heaven and have all the rewards i can. if we were to label everyone as an unbeliever if they were wrong on some aspect of the word then we all would be unbelievers because there are some things which we all hold to which have no scriptural basis.

this is why fellowship is so beautiful to me, God can file off the rubbish and add to those things which He has shown us through us. bless God for fellowship!


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/10/26 13:56Profile









 Re: Ray Comfort on Joyce Meyer

Krispy said

Quote:
Scripture clearly forbids that in Romans 16:17. It couldnt be more plain.

Krispy, I believe context is everything.... and if brethren are not having their 'authority' 'usurped' by allowing a woman to communicate God's gift of insight to them, then a woman [i]under authority[/i] should be free to share what God has given her, in an assembly where men (even) are present.

I do think this statement particularly refers to 'the assembly', and is not a blanket prohibition against a woman exercising her spiritual gifts towards males. Her [i]attitude[/i] makes a lot of difference both to what she will have from God to pass on, and to whether what she is passing on is sound doctrine or not. We all need to hear the 'amen's from others' lips when we are stepping out in faith with our 'gift'(s). The right kind of support and encouragement (from elders), in appropriate gatherings of saints, might not be called 'teaching', or 'pastor'ing, but might amount to the real and acceptable function of a member of the Body in her spiritual gifting.

Domestic settings also offer a challenge to the taking 1 Timothy 2:12 (which is the verse I think you meant?) of out of context.

1 Timothy 2:12
And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.


Please note, I am not defending Joyce Meyer. I know very little about her. I am defending the idea that woman who is right in her heart towards God and the brethren in her local assembly, may be free to share God's word to her, just as she would be free to prophesy or pray. Also, I'm not calling this 'teaching'.

 2006/10/26 13:58
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Krispy
i love you too and i'm not sure we're as far apart as we could be. we may be closer than we think, God knows for sure. Nonetheless bro i must say that if indeed TBN is trash tv, can we say that everyone or everything that has been said/shown there is false? or is there indeed some truth which we ought to find by exercising discernment. it seems to me there is a great need for that. everything needs to be washed in the light of God, even TBN lest we miss out on some things God is trying to show us through it.i think this has more with being lazy than anything else...it's hard to execise discernment, especially if it's not a thing we hear much from the pulpit...

Quote:
As for going to Joyce about her error... I cant. Oh, I could write to her, but she'll never receive it.



can't or won't? are we not speaking out against her because we can't or because we'd rather not? what will we say to God should He ask us about this?

Quote:
However, many people have confronted her about her many erroneous teachings and also about her disobedience to scripture concerning being a woman minister... and she has publicly mocked them in the studio and from the stage. I've witnessed it myself.



are you afraid of being made a spectacle and mocked by her? are we? am i? but didn't Christ say happy are you when men mock and ridicule you for my sake?

Quote:
There comes a point where you have to shake the dust off your sandels and just warn people about her.



then maybe we both ought to warn people about us. i should warn people about you and you warn people about me because we both feel the other is misguided in some way.but then again the apostles were sent out to preach the gospel and if nobody in a certain house received it, they then shook the dust of their feet and left. clearly this woman knows God but is misguided about certain things as we all are. the scriptures are inspired of God for teaching doctrine and reproving too. the "re" part kinda makes me think it will be a repetative process...i wonder how many times we each had something wrong and God spoke to us about it again, and again, and again....and again...again and again...

i thank God He's not as fickle as we can be sometimes!

i love you much bro


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Farai Bamu

 2006/10/26 14:17Profile
Sentry
Member



Joined: 2004/2/5
Posts: 119
West Monroe, Louisiana

 Re: Ray Comfort on Joyce Meyer

I don't have time to get into this right now...
but my initial impression on this post is a bunch of Self Righteousness.

I don't like what "Christian TV" represents or does either....but before you hang this woman on a tree, you should be very careful.

Her books are used by Teen Challenge, (A ministry formed by David Wilkerson).

She has extensive prison ministry. Someone I know personally was touched by this.

So who are we?...what do YOU do for the cause of Chirst?

Again, I can't address this fully, but frankly, something really bothers me about the tone of this post.

In Christ,

Mark


_________________
Mark

 2006/10/26 15:23Profile









 Re:

Quote:
i don't agree with everything that she says or does but i'm not about to miss out on anything God may say through her or anyone else for that matter...



IRONMAN... notice that Paul did not share that opinion with you. He did not exhort the Christians in Rome to listen to false teachers because God might speak through them. No, he commanded that they mark (or brand) false teachers, and [b]avoid[/b] them. Listening to them waiting for some truth that may come out of their mouths is akin to searching thru a dumpster behind Olive Garden in the hopes you might from some food in there. Why not just go into the Olive Garden and order dinner? At God's Olive Garden... dinner is free! We dont even need to leave a tip!

Krispy

 2006/10/26 16:09









 Re:

Quote:
So who are we?...what do YOU do for the cause of Chirst?



No, this doesnt fly. Some here know what ministries I am involved in, some dont. That doesnt matter. Romans 16:17 is a clear command for all believers.

I recommend you read a book that is easily available on the internet called "Who Are You To Judge?". It's an incredible book showing that yes, we are called to judge. Not people's salvation (notice I never said JM isnt a believer!), but we are called to judge doctrine and fruit.

But pulling the old "who are you to judge? You're not perfect!" is getting a bit worn out.

Quote:
Her books are used by Teen Challenge, (A ministry formed by David Wilkerson).

She has extensive prison ministry. Someone I know personally was touched by this.



[b]Mat 7:22-23[/b] [i]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.[/i]

Not saying JM isnt saved... but having successful prison ministries, and top selling books (filled with rank WOF heresies) doesnt mean anything.

(By the way... I'm not a big fan of David Wilkerson either. I know ... the whole forum just gasped!! I have some issues with a lot of his Charismatic doctrines.)

Krispy

 2006/10/26 16:14





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