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murdog
Member



Joined: 2006/2/4
Posts: 352
Fort Frances, Ontario

 Did anyone else notice this.....?

Members,

Why do alot of Christians hate homosexuality with such passion, but then they seem to forget about adultery, fornication,etc.? Sexual sin is sexual sin. The people that are saying things like "Homos are hellbound" and whatever else, seem to forget Jesus's teaching on if you look at a woman with lust, you have committed adultery with her already in your heart. What I am saying is if you are going to hate homosexuality, shouldn't you hate adultery and pre marital sex just as much.

I realize I am not talking about all Christians, but it is just something I have noticed over the years.

Murray


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Murray Beninger

 2006/10/25 22:28Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7488
Mississippi

 Re: Did anyone else notice this.....?

Murray,

If I recall... it is this very point some homos will chastize christians because of their looseness about other sexual sins. They have become very tolorant and accepting and wonder why the difference? And I, for one, think they are right! It makes no sense at all to be ambivilent about other sexual sins but get all fired up about homosexuality. In God's eyes one is as deadly as the other; both need to be repented of and forsaken like a deadly plague.

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2006/10/26 0:16Profile









 Re:

We are to hate all sin, and the wages of sin is death no matter if it is adultry, homosexuality, lying, cheating, stealing, etc. So on one hand I agree. On the other hand, God specifically calls homosexuality an "abomination". A word that God reserved for only a few specific sins. So apparently God has a more fervent hatred for that sin over many others. I know it's very popular on here for people to think that all sin is equal, but that is not scriptural. There are sins that God hates more than others. Keep in mind... He hates all sin. But there appears to be differing degrees of hatred.

I personally think God hates this sin more than others because homosexuality flies right in the face of His very creation. He created us man and woman with very specific functions and abilities... and to partake in His creation by bearing forth new life. For a man to join his body with another man, or woman to woman, is perhaps the most flagrant form of rebellion and disobedience man can come up with.

So I think outrage at homosexuality is ok. We should also be outraged at adultry too. I think it's a misnomer to say that believers arent outraged by adultry and fornication... who ever said we werent? But you dont see adulterers and fornicators insisting that the church accept them as they are (for the most part). They know they are sinning. The homosexual claims he/she isnt sinning, and that God is ok with their sin. That is the difference, and that is the cause for the attention the homosexual community receives from the church... the true church, that is.

Krispy

 2006/10/26 10:24
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 on abominations

bro Krispy

Quote:
We are to hate all sin, and the wages of sin is death no matter if it is adultry, homosexuality, lying, cheating, stealing, etc. So on one hand I agree. On the other hand, God specifically calls homosexuality an "abomination". A word that God reserved for only a few specific sins. So apparently God has a more fervent hatred for that sin over many others. I know it's very popular on here for people to think that all sin is equal, but that is not scriptural. There are sins that God hates more than others. Keep in mind... He hates all sin. But there appears to be differing degrees of hatred.



i agree with you on the first part about how we ought to hate sin period and the wages of sin is death irrespective of what sin it is. i was curious when you said the word abomination is reserved for a few sins so i did a word-search using crosswalk.com i used the KJV so we are on the same page.

the word abomination appears 69 times throughout the word. in some cases it is used in reference to certain peoples, like the Jews being shepherds were an abomination to the Egyptians here in Genesis 46 vs 34:

[b]That ye shall say, Thy servants' trade hath been about cattle from our youth even until now, both we, and also our fathers: that ye may dwell in the land of Goshen; for every shepherd is an abomination unto the Egyptians[/b]

also here in speaking of creatures which don't have fins or scales are an abomination to the Jews in Leviticus 11 vs 10



[b]And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: [/b]

i found it interesting though that in the mention of abomination in leviticus, homosexuality is not said to be an abomination to the Lord as evidenced here in leviticus 18: 22

[b]Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination[/b]

and in 20:13

[b]If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. [/b]

of course this is not to say this sin should be ignored but i find it interesting the things which are specifically said to be "an abomination UNTO the Lord"

deut 7:25

[b]The graven images of their gods shall ye burn with fire: thou shalt not desire the silver or gold that is on them, nor take it unto thee, lest thou be snared therein: for it is an abomination to the LORD thy God. [/b]

Deut 12 31

[b]Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods[/b]

sacrifice to idols and idolatry seem to be an affront to the True God.

Deut 17:1
[b]Thou shalt not sacrifice unto the LORD thy God any bullock, or sheep, 54 wherein is blemish, or any evilfavouredness: for that is an abomination unto the LORD thy God.[/b]

Deuteronomy 18:9-14
[b]9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, 11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. 13 Thou shalt be perfect 55 with the LORD thy God. 14 For these nations, which thou shalt possess, 56 hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do. [/b]

the emerging pattern to me is that those things which are called an abomination unto God have to do with idolatry and sacrificing to idols as opposed to worshipping and sacrificing to God HImself because they make God out to be anything but what He is, the True God and assign this to false gods which are no gods at all.

Deut 22 vs 5
[b]The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God[/b]

perhaps there is no difference between an abomination unto and an abomination before the Lord but even using diverse weights is an abomination before God. this is cheating ad stealing.if there is though then perhaps we have ignored some of the more grievous sins such as idolatry in all it's forms, cheating, divination, necromancy astrology etc. we are in agreement that homosecuality is a grievous thing in the eyes of God however it is interesting to note here in Proverbs 6 that there are 7 things which God hates:

[b]12 A naughty person, a wicked man, walketh with a froward mouth. 13 He winketh with his eyes, he speaketh with his feet, he teacheth with his fingers; 14 Frowardness is in his heart, he deviseth mischief continually; he soweth 20 discord. 15 Therefore shall his calamity come suddenly; suddenly shall he be broken without remedy. 16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17 A proud 21 look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. [/b]

then in James the word says this:

james chapt 2 vs 8

[b]If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment. [/b]

so even if we have not been homosexualys, we may as well have because in lying, stealing and so on we have trangressed not just that part of the law, but the WHOLE law.

Quote:
I personally think God hates this sin more than others because homosexuality flies right in the face of His very creation. He created us man and woman with very specific functions and abilities... and to partake in His creation by bearing forth new life. For a man to join his body with another man, or woman to woman, is perhaps the most flagrant form of rebellion and disobedience man can come up with.



if homosexuality is unnatural and rebellious, how much more rebellious and unnatural is adultery? or is it not as bad because it's a man and a woman, never mind that God commanded us to have 1 husband/wife? the most flagrant form of disobedience to me is idolatry, God seems to have a bigger issue with that than other things because that was the cause of Israel being ransacked and destroyed through the ages.

Quote:
So I think outrage at homosexuality is ok. We should also be outraged at adultry too. I think it's a misnomer to say that believers arent outraged by adultry and fornication... who ever said we werent? But you dont see adulterers and fornicators insisting that the church accept them as they are (for the most part). They know they are sinning. The homosexual claims he/she isnt sinning, and that God is ok with their sin. That is the difference, and that is the cause for the attention the homosexual community receives from the church... the true church, that is.



we may not say we aren't outraged by fornicating and adultery but we don't shout as loud about it as we do homosexuality. i think the issue has more to do with the vast majority of people in the Faith not being guilty of homosexuality but being guilty of adultery, fornication or even both. who wants to make it known that they are guilty of such sordid things? this exposes us as hypocrites.

sure the adulterers and fornicators may not throw it in our faces but you said they know they are sinning. isn't sinning knowingly THAT much more serious in God's eyes? in Hebrews 2 and 10 and 1 Peter 2 we are warned not to play with the blood of Christ by continuing in sin and saying "we can be forgiven" if the unrepentant unsaved sinner deserves God's wrath (which he surely does) how much more deserving are we then who not only KNOW God but are bought by the Blood of Christ!?! YIKES bro! that scares me.and then the judgement of God begins with us because we are supposed to be the standard?!?HElp us Jesus! bro the long and short is, if we don't get serious about combatting adultery, porn, fornication and so on, the homosexual will not take repenting seriously and will use that as an excuse. what incentive have they to repent if they see us doing all these things and yet trying to tell them they need to repent when we ourselves have not repented? that is the reason why we have largely failed in the world, we have come to Christ but not repented and continued on as before so the world has no incentive to repent. our proclamations of repentance have no power unless we ourselves have repented, only then can the conviction which precedes repentance go forth.

also there are by far many more homes which have been destroyed and lives wrecked by adultery and fornication than ever have been by homosexuality and yet our children fornicate like there is no tomorrow. our pastors and so on commit adultery, marry and divorce, are addicted to porn...there are probably more Christian men out there addicted to porn than homosexuals and yet the church remains largely silent about this issue...

we're a bunch of hypocrites alright and God is going to prove it when the judgement hits us, who are called by His name and on whose account the world speaks evily of God and scoffs at Him because we have failed to represent Him as He is in fact...

God help us REPENT, REPENT, REPENT OR WE SHALL SURELY DIE!AMEN


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/10/26 12:30Profile









 Re: Did anyone else notice this.....?

Murray, good thing to bring up. I was wanting to post on this same matter in a thread concerning homosexuality not so long ago, but I decided not to.

My theory on why the social conservatives and street preachers get so "fired up" concerning homosexuality is because for most of them, they have not "touched" this unclean sin. It is one of the 'sins' that they can say, "look, I have not gone this far!" It is very sinful for the person in this sense. It may even be subconsciously thought, but nonetheless. The same thing with Abortion. Why do so many 'street preachers' just preach about abortion like they will about homosexuality-- as if this is some morality religion we have going here (we should not preach 'sins' but Jesus-- that is another discussion all together though).

Again, abortion is something that most people who are in the social conservative movement/street preaching are able to say "i have not stooped to this level"-- "i am unclean in this sin."

Homosexuality is no worse in my view (and Biblically) than adultery. God created us for man and for woman as much as he created us with the ability to go into marriage covenant. Breaking that marriage covenant is on the same par, so is even stealing. The only thing worse that the Bible attests to from what I understand of it is hypocrisy.

But adultery (i.e. the actual act and pornography, etc.) is found much in the church. It is something that most social conservatives will not thus 'preach' about (comparatively), because they know their church is guilty, etc! There is, though, more to it, of course.

Jordan

 2006/10/26 14:05
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Jordan

Quote:
My theory on why the social conservatives and street preachers get so "fired up" concerning homosexuality is because for most of them, they have not "touched" this unclean sin. It is one of the 'sins' that they can say, "look, I have not gone this far!" It is very sinful for the person in this sense. It may even be subconsciously thought, but nonetheless. The same thing with Abortion. Why do so many 'street preachers' just preach about abortion like they will about homosexuality-- as if this is some morality religion we have going here (we should not preach 'sins' but Jesus-- that is another discussion all together though).



that's the same conclusion i came to...but the word tells us that if we kept the whole law and failed one part of it, we have failed the whole law. but mention adultery and the tone is likely to change...that is a thing which is by far more rampant...

Quote:
Homosexuality is no worse in my view (and Biblically) than adultery. God created us for man and for woman as much as he created us with the ability to go into marriage covenant. Breaking that marriage covenant is on the same par, so is even stealing. The only thing worse that the Bible attests to from what I understand of it is hypocrisy.



both are indeed grievous sexual sins though i think the latter has done more damage and yet somehow hasn't been met with the same vehemence as the former. i looked up abomination in the bible (not sure if you read my first response) but homosexuality is said to simply be an abomination. there are abominations in relation to people, like eating sea creatures with fins to the Jews, and then there are things which are called an abomination unto God and homosexuality isn't mentioned in that way. i'm not sure if there is a difference, i suspect there is. it is an abomination unto God to worship/make idols, sacrifice to them because they are an affront to His Godhood. it is also and abomination unto God to wear women's clothing...

the thing though that rings clear throught the word is that God hates idolatry, cheating and hypocracy. Hypocracy is the thing which God Israel in trouble every time, they said one thing and did another, they lied, cheated, stole, worshipped idols yet they fronted and made like they worshipped God. whenever Israel was about to get it from God, those were the things which always came up. how much less guilty are we than they? how much more harsh will the judgement on us be since we are supposed to be under the Blood of Christ yet we treat it with such contempt somtimes...Lord help us!


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Farai Bamu

 2006/10/26 17:42Profile
Dougmore
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Joined: 2006/8/30
Posts: 122


 Re: Did anyone else notice this.....?

Hi Murdog,

Quote:
Why do a lot of Christians hate homosexuality with such passion, but then they seem to forget about adultery, fornication,etc.?



Why? Because they fall into the category of conservative "worldly" sinners. No offence to them but they are what is considered the political right and that is what they stand on. I've heard that the modern apostate church follows around five years after the political parties in Washington. For them, this is the major issue in the American politics today. And if I may say this, just as the apostate church has embraced divorce, which was one of the older issues, was it became ok in American hierarchy. So to will this generations "church" with sodomites. No getting around it. Sad to say but the "church" is leaning that way.

Watch yourselves brethren. Soon what is left of the church is going to fall head first into total acceptance of all sins. They welcome 75% and are just caught up on a few that are left. Look at their views on a righteous life. There is none there. This blindness is no different than the Jews with Messiah.

Is this the Church? Not in the light of scripture. They are a social club for conservative sinners.

I once heard a brother preach saying, "To say a someone is a worldly christian is no different than to call them a pagan a believer."

No distinction. There is only one way. Let us follow God and pursue holiness in reverence to almighty God.

The Lord bless you all, bro Doug

 2006/10/26 18:52Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7488
Mississippi

 Re:

Ironman wrote:

Quote:
but the word tells us that if we kept the whole law and failed one part of it, we have failed the whole law.



I have noticed one thing recently - if a person is guilty of one sin, he is also involved in others? Did you ever hear a person get into a fit of anger and then lie somewhere in the process? Or let a person be involved in fornication...can he/she be trusted in other things? A loved one is [I suspect] involved in this sin and he has said things I doubt as being the truth. Get the point? Yes, commiting one sin will make it much easier to get involved with others. The heart of the issue is that the person is estranged from God, serving their father, the devil, and so it would naturally follow their god will impact their entire lifestyle.

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2006/10/26 19:15Profile
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1832
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

1Co 15:56 - Show Context
The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.

Ro 6:23 - Show Context
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Ro 6:16 - Show Context
Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Jas 2:10 - Show Context
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

It is scary it is me that needs to repent more often of this!! It takes one sin to send us to hell and one cross and one jesus to get us out of hell!!!
I think I thought about for this for quite a time and it drove me into deep depression if you add that God is a sinless god who cannot cope with sin and it is but his grace that we can enter in to his presence
DOm


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Dominic Shiells

 2006/10/26 19:37Profile
murdog
Member



Joined: 2006/2/4
Posts: 352
Fort Frances, Ontario

 Re:

Brethren,

Very good responses! Ironman, your first response hit me like a train. Many of the so called church, myself included are such hypocrites.

When are we going to clean the inside of the dish.

Quote:
Repent, Repent, Repent or we shall surely Die!



Murray


_________________
Murray Beninger

 2006/10/26 22:45Profile





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