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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : of Molech and renunciation of sins

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 of Molech and renunciation of sins

There is something on my mind which I cannot share directly, because it is way to close to home for me personally, and way too sensitive.... by which I mean none of you would thank me for explaining myself in precise detail.

However, I have a very real question about how 'people' should be dealt with by those within the church to whom they turn for spiritual advice.

If I knew the answer to the question, believe me, I would not be asking it...... but, I've noticed scripture is very quiet on this in the New Testament, and in the Old Testament, the solution was supremely simple...... just kill'em! (That was God's preferred way of bringing such sin to an end.)

Please read the following verses. (I searched for 'Molech'.)

Leviticus 18:21
'And you shall not let any of your descendants pass through [the fire] to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God: I [am] the LORD.

Leviticus 20:2
"Again, you shall say to the children of Israel: 'Whoever of the children of Israel, or of the strangers who dwell in Israel, who gives [any] of his descendants to Molech, he shall surely be put to death. The people of the land shall stone him with stones.

Leviticus 20:3
'I will set My face against that man, and will cut him off from his people, because he has given [some] of his descendants to Molech, to defile My sanctuary and profane My holy name.

Leviticus 20:4
'And if the people of the land should in any way hide their eyes from the man, when he gives [some] of his descendants to Molech, and they do not kill him,

Leviticus 20:5
'then I will set My face against that man and against his family; and I will cut him off from his people, and all who prostitute themselves with him to commit harlotry with Molech.

1 Kings 11:7
Then Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the abomination of Moab, on the hill that [is] east of Jerusalem, and for Molech the abomination of the people of Ammon.

2 Kings 23:10
And he defiled Topheth, which [is] in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter pass through the fire to Molech.

Jeremiah 32:35 'And they built the high places of Baal which [are] in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through [the fire] to Molech, which I did not command them, nor did it come into My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.'

Now these:

Acts 19
13 Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists took it upon themselves to call the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, "We exorcise you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches."

14 Also there were seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who did so.

15 And the evil spirit answered and said, "Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?"

16 Then the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, overpowered them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

17 This became known both to all Jews and Greeks dwelling in Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.

18 And many who [u][b]had[/b] believed[/u] came confessing and telling their deeds.

19 Also, many of those who [u][b]had[/b] practiced magic[/u] brought their books together and burned [them] [b]in the sight of all[/b]. And they counted up the value of them, and [it] totaled fifty thousand [pieces] of silver.

20 [b][u]So[/u] the word of the Lord grew mightily and prevailed.[/b]


2 Corinthians 4:2
But we have [u]renounced the hidden things of shame[/u], not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

To be completely clear, I am interested in the received wisdom on how to minister to a person who comes and confesses serious crimes..... both physical and spiritual..... which cause death or spiritual distress to the victims, as with the worship of Molech, which required the sacrifice of children.

Quite a few years ago, I saw a short video on mission work in a remote part of New Zealand. In the passing, the missionary commented that the gospel was well-received by the people, who were glad to hear they didn't have to sacrifice their children any more.

This got me thinking on several aspects of these issues, but, HERE, I particularly wish to discuss whether there are certain sins (which sins?) which simply [i]must[/i] be declared to AN OTHER, and certain sins (not necessarily the same ones), which simply MUST be renounced..... which is a public thing (or so the dictionary suggests)......

I ask, because I don't recall ever seeing anyone renounce anything in a congregational setting - not at their baptism or as a formal stage following prayer to become a Christian on the day they first give their life to Jesus.

Does this mean there is something missing from church life, or is such confession and renunciation going on all the while behind closed doors?

[i]Whichever[/i]..... does the lack of publicity for this supposed-to-be public event, mislead would-be believers and believers alike into thinking they DO NOT have to confess certain sins in an 'official' way...... which then has the effect of them never actually being freed from those sins?

I would be honoured if some of the experienced ministers who don't usually post, would share how they view this matter, and any experience they have, of people getting [i]really[/i] free [i]without[/i] confession and renunciation of specific, serious sin / crime.

What scripture (if any), can be found to support the church's apparent silence on this very important matter?

 2006/10/18 16:44

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710

 Re: of Molech and renunciation of sins

Lam 1:11 All her people sigh, they seek bread; they have given their pleasant things for meat to relieve the soul: see, O LORD, and consider; for I am become vile.

Have we not all become vile before God? Who is the only One that judges righteously? Who is the only One that is justified in forgiving completely?

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Who pronounces guilty? Who pronounces purity and makes pure by putting His pure Son in a vile believer who does not even know what they are doing? We deal with our own conscience and only by the Grace of God do any of us have any way of not being exactly as the one we would judge. That is why Jesus made the Law even more impervious to man's works. Satan wants to set people free by the Law in confessing our worst of all sins to each other and then make that that confession on our part the means to forgiveness. There is punishment on man's part and God's part for sin. When God says confess your sins to Me and I will be faithful and just and not only forgive you but will cleanse you from all unrighteousness. The punishment still stands on man's part because we still live in the world of men. If we want more, then we are parading our self righteousness before men and they are the ones we want praise from instead of believing God. Are we afraid of being caught or are we willing to allow God to cleanse so we no longer do anything to be caught of.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

The more Satan can keep sin's before us the more guilt and condemnation we wallow in and in our mud and hunger like the prodigal son we would go to man and seek forgiveness and say or spend anything we have to relieve our conscience from guilt, instead of going to our Father who's house we are of, knowing those in His house, even the least are treasured and cared for.

God's forgiveness cleanses, man's forgiveness builds up. Forgiveness of others in Christ cleanses, man's forgiveness of man builds up man.

Forgive other's as I have forgiven you. That kind of forgiveness in Christ sets the captives free for the forgiven and the forgiver. God had to kill His Lamb so He could forgive all that know they need it.

In Christ: Phillip


 2006/10/20 2:49Profile

 Re: Of Molech and renunciation of sins

Phillip, thank you for an answer..... But, I have the feeling no-one knows quite what kind of discussion I'd hoped for, from my leading post.....

Well, in the Revival forum in the thread posted by Greg on Evan Roberts and the Welsh Revival, HeartSong quoted this from the opening post:

He taught four basic points: people must confess all known sins, renounce doubtful habits, obey the Spirit's prompting, and confess Christ publicly.

and asked

[b]So why do we not all do this?[/b]

Since renunciation is a public act (according to any dictionary), this was THE main part of my question..... namely, what IS going on in churches, and should there be a change in church practice to incorporate 'renunciation'..... because Paul mentioned that he had 'renounced' .....?

In fact, I had wondered if we would be discussing which sins required renunciation and which did not..... (if indeed they can be divided this way).

Perhaps someone would like to answer the question

'So why do we not all do this?'


 2006/10/22 15:33

Joined: 2005/5/7
Posts: 175



I think this is a very important question. I don't know the answer, but have a few thoughts :-

Salvation requires both repentance and faith.

Sin is Satan's fishing hook in our flesh - the way he exercises control over humanity.

When we have sin in our life, he firstly tries to prevent us from dealing with it fully.

Once we have dealt with it fully he will try to bluff us with the dead sin and use our guilt/fear as a controlling factor.

I once saw a guy re-capture a runaway horse by throwing a loose rope over it's neck. Once the horse felt the rope, it assumed it's liberty was gone and gave up struggling for it.

The first step is to make sure the sin has been dealt with fully. Derek Prince on one of his tapes on deliverance said "The confession needs to be as wide as the transgression". He also states that when confessing a sin (to God or man) we need to name it clearly - "not call a shovel an agricultural implement".

One of the factors with "curious arts" is that they involve sworn dedication to the enemy. Oaths are always taken before testimonies, so I guess breaking with it also requires a clear, just as public, break of oath.


 2006/10/22 16:39Profile

 Re: Of Molech and renunciation of sin

PassingThru said

I think this is a very important question.

I've thought so too, ever since I noticed Paul's

2 Cor 4:2
But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

It is preceded by

1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;

I'll just leave those scriptures for readers to dwell upon. These two verses are loaded with a challenge.....

PassingThru, I could have quoted your whole post; thank you.

The first step is to make sure the sin has been dealt with fully.

I think this is what is really on my mind.... the dealing fully with sin [i]in the first place[/i]. One cannot expect to feel fully cleansed nor to have received the full dose of mercy available, if one has not fully confessed one's sins.....

In some way, the public renunciation of them should be a formality, confirming one's heart state.... rather as the oath to which you refer, which is taken by a person who has [i]already[/i] in their heart, committed it to serve sin.

One of the factors with "curious arts" is that they involve sworn dedication to the enemy. Oaths are always taken before testimonies, so I guess breaking with it also requires a clear, just as public, break of oath.

I had not thought of this clearly, but I know there is a very serious ceremony to join a masonic lodge, which can leave a person in fear of their life.

I can see that unless that person feels they have been freed from the words they spoke, and now comes under the protection of a higher power - God Himself who commands Lucifer (whom masons worship both unknowingly, and knowingly, at certain 'levels') - they may continue to feel unempowered as Christians. This is just one example which affects our western society.

 2006/10/23 9:26

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