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 Who wants to talk peace?

I've been warring in my soul, feeling very war-like towards islamo-fascists, but resting in the Words of Jesus, and trying to work out these tendencies we all have.

I sometimes think to myself if I was an Israeli policy maker, who seeks peace, who, on the Palestinian side, would I reason with, and after reading this article, I realize the answer is, nobody.

"if you have a cloak, sell it and buy a sword".

pondering the meaning of that.

from the NY TImes:

October 6, 2006
Palestinian Premier Vows Not to Recognize Israel
By GREG MYRE
JERUSALEM, Oct. 6 — Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniya told a huge, cheering crowd today that his Hamas movement would not give in to international pressure that has crippled his government, and that it still has no intention of recognizing Israel.

“I tell you with all honesty, we will not recognize Israel, we will not recognize Israel, we will not recognize Israel,” Mr. Haniya said to a thunderous roar of applause from tens of thousands of Hamas supporters, many waving green Hamas flags, at the Yarmouk soccer stadium in Gaza City.

Mr. Haniya also called on the president of the Palestinian Authority — Mahmoud Abbas, the leader of the secular nationalist Fatah movement — to return to Gaza and resume talks on forming a national unity government. Those talks have broken down amid rising tensions between the two main Palestinian factions, Hamas and Fatah.

“Come down to Gaza to protect our people and declare our commitment to a national unity government,” Mr. Haniya said in remarks directed at Mr. Abbas, who works out of the West Bank city of Ramallah.

During a lengthy speech on a sweltering afternoon, Mr. Haniya appeared at one point to be on the verge of collapse aand unable to continue his remarks. Bodyguards rushed to his side to hold him up and whisk him off the stage.

But about ten minutes later he he reappeared and resumed the speech. “Our bodies may get tired, but our souls will not,” Mr. Haniya said, as the crowd roared.

His spell of weakness apparently was caused by the dawn-to-dusk fast that Mr. Haniya, like many Muslims, observes daily during the holy month of Ramadan.

Mr. Haniya’s speech and the large Hamas rally were seen as a rebuttal to Mr. Abbas, who said on Wednesday that the current political stalemate could not go on indefinitely. At that time, Mr. Abbas said he was prepared to invoke his presidential powers, including dismissing the current Palestinian government, which is dominated by Hamas.

Mr. Abbas made his remarks on the same day that he met with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who expressed support for Mr. Abbas.

On Sept. 11, Mr. Abbas and Mr. Haniya agreed in principle to form a unity government in an attempt to find a way out of the worsening political and economic crisis facing the Palestinians. The deal would bring Fatah and other political factions into a government that has been controlled by Hamas since the radical Islamic movement won Palestinian elections in January.

Western countries cut off aid to the Palestinian Authority when Hamas assumed power because they regard Hamas as a terrorist group, and they are now demanding that the Palestinian government take three steps before aid will be resumed: Recognize Israel, renounce violence and accept previous Israeli-Palestinian agreements.

In the talks between Fatah and Hamas, negotiators have sought some way for a new government to take those positions that still allowed Hamas as a political party to avoid explicitly endorsing them.

But Hamas has repeatedly rejected the Western demands, and Fatah leaders say they see no rationale for joining a unity government that would continue to be ostracized by the Western countries and much of the international community.

Israel, which is withholding more than $50 million a month in taxes that it collects on the Palestinian Authority’s behalf, refuses to deal with the Hamas government. Israel’s Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert, says he is willing to meet with Mr. Abbas, but he says there is no prospect for progress until the Palestinians release an Israeli soldier seized by Palestinian militants and taken to Gaza on June 25.

Mr. Haniya, meanwhile, said that the Palestinians faced an “unethical and unjust siege led by the United States administration.”

“Many parties, internal and external, colluded in an attempt to force us to surrender,” the prime minister added. He noted that, aside from Qatar, even the governments of Arab states had not invited him to visit.

The Fatah-Hamas friction boiled over into street fighting in Gaza on Sunday and Monday, leaving 10 Palestinians dead and more than 100 injured in some of the worst internal fighting in recent years. The violence has subsided, but the tension remains.

Taghreed El-Khodary contributed reporting from Gaza.


 2006/10/6 18:13
JoeA
Member



Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 364
Decatur, Illinois

 Re: Who wants to talk peace?

Quote:
I sometimes think to myself if I was an Israeli policy maker, who seeks peace, who, on the Palestinian side, would I reason with, and after reading this article, I realize the answer is, nobody.



I sometimes think to myself that, but for the Grace of God, i could be one of the Palestinians hoping for and attempting to take part in the destruction of Israel. By no means do i support the Palestinians who hope for the destruction of Israel (which is probably the great majority of them), but i also realize that they are sinners for whom Christ died - just like me.

If i were in their shoes, growing up the way they have, having been indoctrinated to hate Jews, i might strap a bomb to myself and blow up innocent Jews. It is only by God's grace that we were priveleged enough to have grown up in America, heard the Gospel, and repented of our sins. He could have chosen to let us be born in Palestine, Afghanistan, or Iran.

All we can do when we look at the situation in the Middle East is to humble ourselves because He has saved worms like us, pray for the safety of God's chosen people, and pray for the salvation of all those opposed to Him.


_________________
Joe Auvil

 2006/10/6 18:30Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Bartle
i pray God gives you grace enough to keep from such thoughts. that reminds me of something bro Philologos said to the effect of if we pray in anger or while we are angry, our prayers are not heard and he gave a scripture to back that up also. we all have to check ourselves in that regard lest we give the enemy occasion to cause havoc.somtimes i feel like doing a Samson,ie. picking up the jawbone of an ass and wrecking shop...but then God didn't bring me to Himself that way.

bro Joe
it is by God's grace that we are called of Him and we are here away from all that madness. we at some point though have to go to those places with the gospel because our brethren there can't come to repentance if they've not heard the gospel, and they can't receive it unless someone goes there. we ought to see if we are willing to endured whatever needs to endured if in fact God has called us to be the answer to the prayer "God save them" we also can't leave out God's chosen people because in terms of prayer and preaching the gospel either. they also need to repent and receive salvation, in that regard they are no different from the muslims who would see to their destruction.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/10/8 12:40Profile









 bro Ironman

bless God...no, I know.

its a King David versus Jesus tension in my soul.

In the book of Joshua, the Bible speaks of territory of Israel extending to the great river, the Euphrates. I don't write that as a bone of contention, just pondering that, and I wonder if any IDF generals or Israeli policy makers ever ponder this......just wondering.

bartle

 2006/10/8 13:33
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re: bro Ironman

you know bro bartle the teritory given to the Jews is much larger than the current state sits on, if i remember right it should take up lebanon, jordan and parts of iran and iraq (may be wrong on that) perhaps. either way Abraham saw a bigger piece of land than what is now considered Israel. i wonder if the IDF bosses take that into account also...i had never thought of that.

i pray Christ wins that tension. David did do his bit though.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/10/8 14:53Profile









 Re: Who wants to talk peace?

JoeA said

Quote:
By no means do i support the Palestinians who hope for the destruction of Israel

Let's not forget the Palestinian Christians who are suffering with their unbelieving fellow-countrymen.

There are Christians in Israel too, also hoping for peace in their lifetime.

 2006/10/8 15:09









 Re:

I have been over there a couple of times touring with fellow Christians
Totally Blessed!
Their Gov't is the most confused I can think of and racked with deals and corruption with smatterings of the faithfull
But God loves them and honors His covenant with Abraham of Gen 12:3 and
watches over Jerusalem - the City of the Great King
Jesus Jeshuah
who will return there as He said and rule the world as the prophets tell us in a Theocracy that we all yearn for

The 10 agarot coin of Israel shows the Messianic borders of Ezekiel and as David and Solomon envisaged - many Jews know their Bible but they dont know the Messiah--- Yet...
but they look to Him - pray that the Lord may drop the scales from their eyes that they might yet see He who came to His own and is still waiting
God Bless the Israelis because the Devil has been fomenting hate against them for millennia
J

 2006/10/16 22:42
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7497
Mississippi

 Re: Who wants to talk peace?

Bartle,

Your post deals with the political aspect of the Israeli-Palestian situation. What about the Christians? The Believers who are ethnic Palestians? the messianic Jews living there? Recently Christianity Today magazine reported of the hostilities that exists between these two groups which really surprises me. Now if Christian people who live in a country ravished by war hate each other, how can one expect the secular to do any better?

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2006/10/31 10:58Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: The Heart of David

Quote:
What do you think King David would do about the jihadi's?


Quote:
its a King David versus Jesus tension in my soul.



Neil, because these two comments have become imprinted on my mind since I read them, I decided today to seek the scriptures with the following questions:

What really WAS the heart of David?

How did it compare to that of Christ?

A floodgate is opening, as I search. For sure this topic could occupy a thread for a very long time.

David became so close to God through his struggles that he was able to identify with the passion of Christ. It's called prophetic identification. I sense, Neil, that God is forming that kind of heart in you.

Through his struggles, David developed keen insight into the coming of the Anointed One. He also came to identify with God’s heart for future generations – and ultimately, the eternal kingdom. David could see far beyond the earthy, temporal dimension of Israel’s existence.

I am convinced that when David said, “Pray for the PEACE of Jerusalem… Peace be within you…” Ps. 122 he was foreshadowing the PEACE that Christ came to bring the world – PEACE with God.

“Glory to God in the highest.
And on earth PEACE to men on whom his favor rests.” Lk. 2:14


I post a few verses that reflect David’s struggles and raw, honest thoughts - that helped shape his heart and vision. This is barely a beginning:


Psalm 3
1 O LORD, how many are my foes!
How many rise up against me!
2 Many are saying of me,
"God will not deliver him."

3 But you are a shield around me, O LORD;
you bestow glory on me and lift up my head.
4 To the LORD I cry aloud,
and he answers me from his holy hill.
Selah
5 I lie down and sleep;
I wake again, because the LORD sustains me.
6 I will not fear the tens of thousands
drawn up against me on every side.
7 Arise, O LORD!
Deliver me, O my God!
Strike all my enemies on the jaw;
break the teeth of the wicked.
8 From the LORD comes deliverance.
May your blessing be on your people.
Selah

4:4In your anger do not sin;
when you are on your beds,
search your hearts and be silent.

5:4 You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil;
with you the wicked cannot dwell.
5 The arrogant cannot stand in your presence;
you hate all who do wrong.
6 You destroy those who tell lies;
bloodthirsty and deceitful men
the LORD abhors.
7 But I, by your great mercy,
will come into your house;
in reverence will I bow down
toward your holy temple.

6:1 O LORD, do not rebuke me in your anger
or discipline me in your wrath.
2 Be merciful to me, LORD, for I am faint;
O LORD, heal me, for my bones are in agony.
3 My soul is in anguish.
How long, O LORD, how long?
4 Turn, O LORD, and deliver me;
save me because of your unfailing love.
5 No one remembers you when he is dead.
Who praises you from the grave [b] ?
6 I am worn out from groaning;
all night long I flood my bed with weeping
and drench my couch with tears.
7 My eyes grow weak with sorrow;
they fail because of all my foes.
8 Away from me, all you who do evil,
for the LORD has heard my weeping.
9 The LORD has heard my cry for mercy;
the LORD accepts my prayer.
10 All my enemies will be ashamed and dismayed;
they will turn back in sudden disgrace.


_________________
Diane

 2006/11/1 9:36Profile









 Thank you Diane

for that Word......recieved with a yielded heart. I been in Mark this morning ..chptrs 1 to 10....much much blessing and understanding I have recieved, because I have been allowing Jesus to teach me, hence this dog has been eating of the Crumbs, and here's just the short version of what I've recieved

1. "unclean"...what comes out of a man's heart is what makes him unclean: 14 of them

evil thoughts,
sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly (7:20-23)


2. the defintion of "religion":

(Jesus said:) "You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."


3. "Watch out for the yeast of the Pharisees, and that of Herod".....the pharisees represented the religionists of that day (they are still with us, and they are in the church) and herod represented the political power of that day, and those two were JOINED AT THE HIP.

watch out for the yeast

4. the prayer of prayers:

"I do believe! Help me overcome my unbelief!"
(9:24b)

the father with the mute son.

"help me overcome my unbelief!"

5. the thousands of people who followed after Jesus to hear His teachings were DIRT POOR, they had no food

6. Jesus DIRECTLY speaks against discernemnt ministries:

""Teacher, said John, we saw a man driving out denoms in your Name and we told him to stop because he was not one of us".

"Do not stop him" Jesus said, no one who does a miracle in my Name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us, is for us. I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my Name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward."
(9:38-41)

I intend on putting that one up in the Joyce Meyer thread...at the same time, I got this Word:

(4:19) "but the worries of this world, the deceitfullness of wealth, and the desire for other things come in and choke the Word, making it unfruitful".

so thats where prosperity preachers err....."the deceitfullness of wealth".

God bless you for the Word, neil

 2006/11/1 12:47





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