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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : God's love and anger toward the unsaved?

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roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: trying to define love

Quote:
He wants everyone to come to repentance,


Isn't this the essence of God's love?
Diane


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Diane

 2006/10/5 5:00Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: To KNOW the love of God!

Quote:
if god loves me just as i im, then no need to change and repent


This a typical misuse of the word "love"? We're getting the word "love" mixed up with the word "like", or "please".

A parent who truly loves his child isn't going to let him stay dirty (selfish) all his life. Nor will the child view that as true love (in the long run).

So with God.

Yes God loves me regardless of what I'm like. But he loves me enough to do whatever it takes to let me see my need for him so that I will come to him for cleansing.

A weak understanding of divine love leads to legalism - an attempt to win, earn, or keep God's love. This is what displeases God immensely because it is rooted in an unwillingness to trust fully in God's love and mercy (his redemption through Christ)

If we don't grasp this, our evangelism will produce a lot of legalists (converts who still trust in the flesh). Probably Jesus and Paul spoke against no offense more than this one. And it is still angers God today - probably more than any other sin. And it is still very prevelent in the church.

May God help us grasp how wide and long and high and deep the love of Christ is. (from Eph 1:19 )
Those who really BELIEVE and KNOW God's love are the ones who turn the world upside down for Christ.
All the others merely do paint jobs here and there.


Diane


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Diane

 2006/10/5 5:21Profile
Here4Him
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Joined: 2006/9/23
Posts: 212
England

 Re:

Quote:
Yes God loves me regardless of what I'm like. But he loves me enough to do whatever it takes to let me see my need for him so that I will come to him for cleansing.



Some really good points, and I agree Diane about steering clear of legalism. Paul said that it was the love of Christ that compelled him and so we have to understand Christ's love for us and His love for sinners.

I got so into the teaching that God is angry with sinners that i began to only see sinners as wicked rebels (which i know they are- as was I) but now i am beginning to see them through Christ's eyes- that yes they are wicked rebels against God but 'God has demonstrated his own love toward us in that while we were still sinners (rebels) Christ died for us'. I am now trying to look on all the unsaved, especially the worst as men and women for whom Christ died.

Do you think this is a helpful way to view people?

It is difficult because again the psalmist writes 'how I hate thos who hate you' and as a lover of God and Christ you experience something of this feeling toward the unrepentant sinner, and yet also we are to love them and see them through Christ's eyes. Its a difficult balance hey?


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George Platt

 2006/10/5 8:40Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
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Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re: God's love and anger toward the unsaved?

Quote:

Here4Him wrote:
Is it wrong to say to the unsaved 'Jesus loves you'?



I think only in the sence that people do not understand love in the "biblical" sence. Bible love (agape) is about "giving" as opposed to "taking". The other thing is that "hate" is proportional to "love". When their is no love for the person "hated", it is not really hate, but indifference.

I have no problem telling sinners that God loves them, but I always point out that it is a jilted love, as a husband that cannot help but love his adulterous wife. Eventually the husband must say "Enough is enough". This "patient jilted love" is what is described in Hosea.

Most sinners can comprehend the kind of betrayal that exists when someone commits adultery against them (even if they think the promiscuity is acceptable). This betrayal is what makes the love of God a fearful thing. It is also helpful to present John 3:16 in series with vv17-18. This shows that God's love is one that offers one last chance, but if it is rejected then we are "condemed already".

At the end of the day, do not forget that the "love of God is manifest, in that [b]while we were yet sinners[/b] Christ died for us."


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Aaron Ireland

 2006/10/5 9:06Profile









 Re:

I've often heard, "You shouldn't just go around and tell people 'Jesus loves you'.

For awhile, I thought, yea your right.

Now, in the book of Acts the fear of God is referenced more then the love of God.

But even Jesus said:

"I have loved you" Joh 13:34

"I have loved you." Joh 15:12

We DEFFINATELY need to tell people that Jesus loves them, by dying on the cross for them! That is not to neglect the law, hell, judgment, etc.

But if we are not preaching the love of God revealed at the cross, can we really say that we are preaching the gospel at all???

I don't think so.

 2006/10/5 11:45
roaringlamb
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
A parent who truly loves his child isn't going to let him stay dirty (selfish) all his life. Nor will the child view that as true love (in the long run).



So are you saying that the unsaved are HIS children? If so, I would say this is not Biblical. They have a creator, but they have chosen to worship and serve the creation rather than the creator.
Take for instance if I came to your house abd said,"hello mom." You would rightly say I do not know who you are. I did not give birth to you, and no matter how much I insisted you could plainly state that you did not give birth to me and therefore I was not your child.
When the pharisees told Jesus that they knew who their father was, he told them, "if Abraham were your father you would do his works, [b]but you are of your father the devil[/b]"
Until the new birth no one can say GOD is my Father, else why be born again?
Man must have a new heart in place of the rebellious heart of stone thus we must be born again.


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patrick heaviside

 2006/10/5 13:22Profile









 Re:

Only Christians are children of God. Non Christians are children of the devil.

They need to be, as the bible says, "adopted" into the family of God.

But all people, saved or unsaved, are a part of God's "creation" though not all are "children".

And God has a love (aka care, concern) for all that He has created. And because He cares for all of His creation, He hates and is angry towards everything that is harmful to His creation.

 2006/10/5 13:27
Here4Him
Member



Joined: 2006/9/23
Posts: 212
England

 Re:

Yeah, i agree the bible does teach that God has two levels of love (if you can put it in such a crude way). His love for all He has made (what some call his common grace)-He is good to all and has compassion on all He has made and this is revealed even by sustaining the lives of the rebellious and wicked Christ rejectors. This is the basis for our Lord's teaching in the sermon on the mount for why we should love our enemies- because God loves His enemies- in the sense that He is good to them and has compassion on them.

Then there is the love that God has only and specially for His children, and as we know, that is only for those who are "in Christ". When we are in Christ He loves us as He loves His dearly beloved Son, because He sees us as He sees His Son. Paul says in Romans 8 that that "nothing can seperate us from the love of God that is IN CHRIST JESUS". I think we have to be so careful to guard and defend this truth. So many Christians just think yeah 'God loves everyone', and they mean He loves everyone the same. Their God would never punish the wicked because He loves everyone, right!

I think that what we are saying is that when talking of the love of God to sinners it has to be in the context of the cross- which is where the love of God to a wicked world was so wonderfully and vividly demonstrated.

Doesn't a true understanding of the glorious doctrine of the cross of Jesus applify the love of God greatly in that when people understand their sin and the punishment they deserve for offending this good God- and yet at the very point of their highest rebellion- He sent His Son to be the sacrifice for our sins! These 'good news carriers' (which is how i heard one gospel preacher recently describe himself) who only softly say God loves you and talk about the nice things of the gospel are actually hindering people truly understanding the depth and vastness of the love of God in Christ Jesus.

I guess I am only saying what we all know here- but it does me good to write it!

Do you agree that if when preaching the gospel we only come down hard on sinners by speaking of law and sin and judgement but then don't also woo them to Christ with His love, telling them how much He has loved them- we are doing the God of love who we serve a great injustice and are representing Him only as a harsh God. I mean we would all no doubt mention the cross toward the end of our sermon (or one on one witnessing conversation ) but i think we have to avoid the danger of almost enjoying telling sinners the bad news of law and sin and judgment and then only speaking of the cross because we ought to. I was conficted a while ago by the Lord that i was beginning to enjoy telling sinners the bad news more than i did in telling them the good news. Surely this is wrong and such people are poor witnesses for Jesus Christ.

Why are people going to cast themselves on a Jesus who doesn't really love them? I think that we are well out of order if we are not also presenting a Christ who 'receives sinners (Luke 15:2) who pleads with sinners (Luke 13:34)and who loves sinners.

We know the teaching about the wrath of God, we have heard 'hells best kept secret' and 'the way of the master teaching' but we must be careful that we don't in reaction to the soft'God loves you' message swing too far the other way. We must present the beautiful biblical balance of the 'kindness and severity of our God'. Because surely Christianity is about 'loving God' and 'we love Him because He first loved us'.


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George Platt

 2006/10/6 5:28Profile





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