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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : prophetic or opinion?

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HopeinChrist
Member



Joined: 2005/8/8
Posts: 258


 prophetic or opinion?

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

I tried to bring out this point in another thread but I don't think it was really picked up on. Perhaps I misunderstand the above verse so I am open to other's interpretations of it. I am no theologen(sp?).

If we attribute a move or work of God to not be of God or to be from Satan himself would that not be blaspheming the Holy Spirit? I am concerned that so often specific ministries, men and claimed revival movements are so certainly proclaimed to "not" be of God. I am not suggesting that they all are of God, but simply that I don't really know. I have certainly felt cautious in my own spirit at times and have avoided ministries because of it. I would not even think of boldly proclaiming to everyone that they are heretics though. What if I'm wrong? What if you are wrong? Would it not be better to take our concerns before God and pray that if it is not of God that he give wisdom to his people that they are not deceived? And even that he impart truth into those ministers also. The heart is wicked and decietful above all things. Who says come and follow me I preach a false gospel? And even in genuine outpourings and ministries the evil one will be at work there to to deceive who he can, to bring counterfits etc. But remember the parable of the wheat and the tares. The presence of tares does not make the wheat a counterfit.

Certainly God has his prophets, but lets make sure it's God and not our opinion dressed up as a spiritual discernment or prophetic at work.

This is not directed at anyone. I couldn't even usually tell you who posted what. It just seems to be such a common occurance, not only on this forum but in Christian circles all over. I just want to encourage people to think about what they say before they say it, examine it's source and to be mindful of the seriousness of what we speak.
HopeInChrist

 2006/9/27 17:25Profile
MSeaman
Member



Joined: 2005/4/19
Posts: 772
Michigan

 Re: prophetic or opinion?

Good post, HopeInChrist. It would be better to err on the side of caution, but as you say, without all knowledge, we don't want to commit blasphemy.

(that is what you said, right?) ;-)


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Melissa

 2006/9/27 17:31Profile
HopeinChrist
Member



Joined: 2005/8/8
Posts: 258


 Re:

yes, that is my point. :-P You could have saved me a lot of time.

 2006/9/27 17:36Profile









 Re: prophetic or opinion?


Hope, you do make a good point, that perhaps judgement should be made on as broad an understanding of a person's ministry, as possible, rather than on one questionable detail.

This is the clearest (imo) definition in scripture, of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit:

Mark 3
28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

30 [b]Because they said[/b], He hath an unclean spirit.

 2006/9/27 18:09
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 re-think this

Mar 3:30 because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.


Sounds logical but you need to look at the next verses as it deals with Jesus' own family coming to get him saying that He was beside himself, the illussion being that they may have sided somewhat with the scribes. So we see here the possibility of a deeper meaning, I leave that for you to discover. God Bless Bro. Daryl

Mar 3:31 And there come his mother and his brethren; and, standing without, they sent unto him, calling him.
Mar 3:32 And a multitude was sitting about him; and they say unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.
Mar 3:33 And he answereth them, and saith, Who is my mother and my brethren?


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D.Miller

 2006/9/27 20:47Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:a good topic

A good post has been started here. No doubt there is still much to consider regarding this topic.

“…He has lost connection with the Head…” Col. 2:19

"Let us keep in step with the Spirit." Gal. 5:25

Diane


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Diane

 2006/9/27 22:29Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: prophetic or opinion?

Quote:

If we attribute a move or work of God to not be of God or to be from Satan himself would that not be blaspheming the Holy Spirit?



Simply having poor discernment is not blasphemy of the Spirit. Think of the phrase, "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit." What does it mean to blaspheme? To blaspheme something is to use malicously cruel and violent language towards something or somebody holy.

To do such takes a knowledge of what one is talking about. You can't unknowingly blaspheme something. To blaspheme something, specifically, the Holy Spirit, is to knowingly and malicously slander the Spirit of God.

In the context of the gospels, it is specifically used in reference to the Pharisees who recognized Jesus performing geniune acts of God, but knowingly attributing these acts of God to the devil. It wasn't simply them being spiritually blind or undiscerning, but, to actually know what the truth was, and to slander the activity of Christ as having its origins of the Devil.


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Jimmy H

 2006/9/27 23:25Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re: prophetic or opinion?

HopeinChrist wrote:

Quote:
If we attribute a move or work of God to not be of God or to be from Satan himself would that not be blaspheming the Holy Spirit?


No, It is when one knows something to be of God and still attribute it as a move or work of satan.
[b]Mat 12:22-24[/b] [color=990000]Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.
[b]:23[/b] And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
[b]:24[/b] But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.[/color]

These scribes knew that Jesus was the true Messiah but hated Him because He did come as they wanted, "The Concoring King",
The Messiah would be known by cirtain miracles setting him apart form other prophets. He would domiracles that know other prophet did or could do as the miracles in this verse, that is why the people were amazed, and said, "is not this the son of David?" in other words, "this would mean he is Massiah"

The Pharisees in Matt.12:24 tell the people that Jesus casts out demons by the “Prince of demons claiming that the spirit that is working through Him is not the Holy Spirit but a demonic spirit. In verse 29 Jesus states that this cannot be true because Satan would be divided and his kingdom would fall. Furthermore, No one is able to bind Satan and spoil his belongings unless he is stronger and not subservient. Jesus specifically states “He is driving the demons out with the Spirit God.”

The purpose of his miracles was to authenticate who He was. In Judaism there were 3 main messianic miracles that the rabbis understood would take place when the messiah would come, these would help the people recognize him (Deut.18:15; Isa. 35:3-6; Isa. 43:7-9).

[b]1:[/b] He would heal someone born blind from birth (Jn.9:1)

[b]2:[/b] He would heal a Jew who had leprosy (from the time of Moses’ law being completed, no Jew was ever healed of leprosy.

[b]3:[/b] He would heal or cast out a dumb demon. The Pharisees recognize this as a messianic miracle and ask if this can be the Son of David. At the time their were exorcisms performed within Judaism. For this to be accomplished the exorcist needed to actually communicate with the demon and ask questions. However in the case such as this where someone was affected by the demon to become dumb, this exorcism could not take place because there could be no communication made. According to Judaism only the Messiah could cast out a demon like this because it would be supernatural.

[b]John 2:23[/b] [color=990000]Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, [b]when they saw the miracles which he did.[/b][/color]

Quote:
I would not even think of boldly proclaiming to everyone that they are heretics though.


We could boldly proclaim to everyone that most of the TBN crowd are heretics.

Quote:
What if I'm wrong? What if you are wrong?


If we search the Scriptures and judge the everything from that, we will [b]KNOW[/b] what true and what is false.

Quote:
Would it not be better to take our concerns before God and pray that if it is not of God that he give wisdom to his people that they are not deceived? And even that he impart truth into those ministers also.



This will only work if they love the truth.
[b]2Thes 2:10b-12[/b] [color=990000]because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
[b]:11[/b] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
[b]:12[/b] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.[/color]

Quote:
even in genuine outpourings and ministries the evil one will be at work there to to deceive who he can, to bring counterfits etc.

I agree, look at the "Azusa Street revival"

Quote:
Certainly God has his prophets, but lets make sure it's God and not our opinion dressed up as a spiritual discernment or prophetic at work.


There are some "discirnment ministreys out there that are only against thing whith nothing to be for like [u]http://www.atruechurch.info/home.html[/u]
This "ministrey even thinks Ray Comfort is a false evangelist. Sure they expose the false, but they will find every flaw that one has and condem you with it.
However, If one is following the trueth, that one will see the false.

In conclusion, God gives us knowlage, not oppinions.

 2006/9/28 11:10Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: prophetic or opinion?

Quote:
If we attribute a move or work of God to not be of God or to be from Satan himself would that not be blaspheming the Holy Spirit?


This comment needs to be considered in the context of its origin which was a setting in which men knowingly attributed to Satan what they knew was the activity of God. To do so was a conscious slander.

To attribute some current activities to the Holy Spirit might also be 'defamation of character'. ;-)


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Ron Bailey

 2006/9/28 11:16Profile
OverSeer
Member



Joined: 2006/7/15
Posts: 153
Geneva, Alabama

 Re: prophetic or opinion?

Quote:
Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Quote:
If we attribute a move or work of God to not be of God or to be from Satan himself would that not be blaspheming the Holy Spirit? I am concerned that so often specific ministries, men and claimed revival movements are so certainly proclaimed to "not" be of God. I am not suggesting that they all are of God, but simply that I don't really know. I have certainly felt cautious in my own spirit at times and have avoided ministries because of it. I would not even think of boldly proclaiming to everyone that they are heretics though. What if I'm wrong? What if you are wrong? Would it not be better to take our concerns before God and pray that if it is not of God that he give wisdom to his people that they are not deceived?



To call a true prophet, "false" and a false prophet, "true" is deadly and destructive regardless of whether or not it leads to blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. To reject the true prophet is to reject God's true message. To receive the false prophet is to receive the devil's false message. Both are indicators of deception. Jesus even said that the way we respond to His true men is the way the we respond to Him - "He that receiveth you receiveth Me, and he that receiveth Me receiveth Him that sent Me" (Matthew 10:40). He also said of the false prophets, "Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets" (Luke 6:26). The same principle applies even to receiving false prophets - to receive the false prophet is to receive the devil and his lies.

So discernment is not an option but a necessity and one which we do not have within ourselves. Therefore Jesus told us in Matthew 7:7 how to receive discernment - "Ask, seek, knock" - this is the same thing that Proverbs 2:1-11 says and verse 11 says, "Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee."

Grace and peace
Olan


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Olan Strickland

 2006/9/28 11:50Profile





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