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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : THE ADVOCATES OF ANTI-NOMIANISM ( NO LAW ) !!

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Dougmore
Member



Joined: 2006/8/30
Posts: 122


 Re:

Thanks brother,

Am I correct in saying that you feel that because some of Torah was pictures of Christ they are now non applicable? Correct that thought if it is wrong.

In Christ, bro Doug

 2006/9/29 22:20Profile
sonofthunder
Member



Joined: 2005/3/31
Posts: 419
Son Of Thunder i come from a land down under, due south at the bottom of your work globes

 Re:

Im not quite sure what you mean by pictures.

Torah is the wrong and poor substitute for...law

Law is correctly translated into our bibles

So let's stay with the word law...to describe

His standards and boundaries !!

I guess we can go around in a never ending circle

But i'd rather not

I think where some of your own mis-understandings lie is in the fact " Jesus kept the law...the mosaic law and the the prophets - he kept "

And so as you say he told people that questioned him, what does the law say ?? and he'd reply go and do like-wise and you shall....live.

Jesus paul said in Galation 4:4 was made of a woman and made of "law"

Meaning Christ came in old-covanant times and so he himself kept and adhered to the law ( every-one was still under Mosaic-law ) correct ??

But as we learn from Hebrews chapter nine: Christ blood of the ["new-testament"] introduced new -covenant and new-testament.

Hence the new-testament was instigated and [introduced ] upon the death of the "testator"
that being Jesus himself - of course.

So technically and scripturally the new testament was launched - upon his death - and not during his life. ( that is why he commended and practised the law of Moses ) saying go show yourself to the priest to the lepers and commending the pharisee's for their tithing principles.

As everyone including Jesus was "under" mosaic
law.

Until his death - the death of the testator

And so really the blood of his new-teatament is effectively "launched" upon his death at calvary.

Matthew, mark, luke, and John are historical and documented accounts of a man and life ( Jesus )
who ministered under "law" and grace came with pentecost and the early apostles.

Paul undertstood this fully

But the Jews stumbled and resisted - Paul went
to prison - why ??

Because he fought to implement grace and the new-testament into the churches !!!

The Jews thought it was blasphemy to desert Moses

And they must continue to preach moses in all the
synagogues - even James the apostle - exhorted to continue preaching mosaic law ....until he
finally saw that Paul was right, and the levitical priesthood and the mosaic law - even for the Jew had been dis-mantled and pulled down.

The transition was hard for the apostles themselves and why ??

Because they saw their Lord Jesus - keep and
honour the law !!!

So when Paul said it's gone and done away

They struggled to accept that - as Jesus kept law

So making the adjustment and realizing his death was to introduce new-testamnt grace, and dis-mantle the "existing priesthood", was a huge obstacle for their minds to grasp and for them to- - let go off, and to move on - going forward.

Blindness is meant to fall on those who resist and fight the truth or genuine scriptural change.


_________________
Bro Stephen

 2006/9/30 22:15Profile
Dougmore
Member



Joined: 2006/8/30
Posts: 122


 Re:

Hi brother,

I agree with what you are saying concerning grace. And I understand what your saying about Torah. But when Jesus said, "Law,Psalms, and the Prophets, He is clearly speaking of Torah. Torah is the Law. It was Gods standard for OT believers. In Torah we see God Himself give the OT law.

In Christ, bro Doug

 2006/10/1 18:43Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

SOT wrote:

Quote:
gosh i wonder if i will BE nabbed for breaking the speed limit today or gosh i



Sir, after reading to this point I could no longer read your post...I find the swear word 'gosh' highly objectable. Does the commandment "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain" not mean anything to you?

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2006/10/2 0:31Profile









 Re:

One of my all time favorite books is John Fletchers "Checks to Antinomianism".

It's the best theological book I have ever read.

Fletcher writes public letters to ministers who were publicly attacking Wesley by calling him a heretic and a tool of the devil.Wesley was in his 70s during these letters.

But Fletcher hammers at the antinomianism of his day, the same antinomianism present in our own, and has very strong arguements where he uses scripture, reason, satire, quotes, etc etc.

He covers issues like original ability, conditional security, etc etc.

It's a classic and a must read.

 2006/10/2 0:38
sonofthunder
Member



Joined: 2005/3/31
Posts: 419
Son Of Thunder i come from a land down under, due south at the bottom of your work globes

 Re:

Is this person for real ??

Gosh is a "swear word" or is "profanity" ??

Well here in australia it isn't thought of in that
way or manner

So how can you Impute sin to me - when i do not
know that i have used ... profanity ??

If "gosh" is a euphornism for some swear word then
i did not know that OKAY( so kindly practise love
and extend forgiveness to me - and for MY alleged WRONG ) !!

OR DID YOU ALSO FORGET THIS COMMANDMENT - THAT
IF YOUR BROTHER SINS AGAINST YOU - 70 times
7 IN ONE DAY = [490 times] - then you must
continue to forgive him.

Or this commandment " love covers a multitude of
sins " ?? and YOU HAVE TO get past all greviances AND OFFENCES TOWARDS YOU

( that is to say if im guilty as you say of THIS cuss word "GOSH" )

The truth lies much deeper THOUGH - than a petty
greviance, or in this perceived objection !!

The devil does not want to be found out
regarding THE mis-understanding and
application of these 3 things

1.the place of law
2.AND - the place of works
3.and how they are "both" correctly applied in
new-testament TIMES !!

Notwithstanding in this reply may God bless you,
and may you know the riches of this grace that
i speak of - in Christ !!



_________________
Bro Stephen

 2006/10/2 5:56Profile
Dougmore
Member



Joined: 2006/8/30
Posts: 122


 Re:

Hi sister,

Quote:
I find the swear word 'gosh' highly objectable. Does the commandment "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain" not mean anything to you?



I completely understand what and where you are coming from. But may I ask, do you call Jehovah, "gosh"? Just curious. The true question is, can this be proven by scripture to be the name of Almighty God? Is there Hebrew or Greek that sheds light on this?

I don't believe there is.

In Christ Jesus, bro Doug

 2006/10/3 18:54Profile
sonofthunder
Member



Joined: 2005/3/31
Posts: 419
Son Of Thunder i come from a land down under, due south at the bottom of your work globes

 Re:

Hey i apolagize for the use of a "euphenism"

I looked it up in a dictionary and

and informally it means: to express surpise and
amazement at something or someone !!

Which is all i meant to do by use of allegory

So again forgive me this wrong.

But let us not swallow camels any[more]( pardon
the pun ) over such an matter.

Ive heard the "Jehovah" - argument before

Years ago the "freemanites" from Indiana
use to argue thick and thin over this thing.

Incidently they were the advocates of those
wanting the word "torah" to replace "law"
in n.t scripture.

Claiming "law" was wrongly translated from the
greek into the septuagint ( blah blah blah )

Doug years ago i learnt not to strive about words
to no profit(except that they subvert the hearer)

And strivings about the....law

Titus was exhorted to abstain from it - also

YOUNG Timotheos: well he was told that some
desire to be "teachers of the LAW" - but they
neither knew what they were on about - nor what
they were [affirming] - and consequently were
given over to {vain jangling}

The simple answer for me is implicit trust in the
KJV translators - and that they got it right !!!

And if i don't know the meaning of a word

I simply get several books to help [define] words

And along with [he] who guides into all truth {the comforter- the spirit of truth}in time
i arrive at corrct definition.

It's interesting that Jesus said he is the spirit
of truth - [that is the holy Ghost] AND JESUS
DEFINED HIS ROLE AS "GUIDING INTO "ALL"...TRUTH

So he is the "truth guider"

And not the ( greek ) or the talmud, or alleged
sea scrolls - or missing alleged cannonical gospels ad-infinitum.

So a big part of arriving at truth - is to listen
to his voice, and not what others are necessarily
writing about the - word of GOD.

If we substitute some author - or this book or
that book - over - DIVINE SCRIPTURE.

That can be the source of all the mass confusion
you see today over correct doctrine.

Just Too many people going around quoting this
man and that man's writings...instead of the WORD
of GOD.

Jehovah is in the kjv

SO at this stage Mr More - i just have to stay
with the KJV.

Only exception is the voice of the comforter
communicating to me - something perhaps went
awry in the original 1611 translating process.

have a nice day
in the saviour
s.o.f

A good book has it's place, but as opposed to
that of DIVINELY AUTHORED SCRIPTURE - well no
COMPARISON, whatsoever !!!


_________________
Bro Stephen

 2006/10/3 19:50Profile
Dougmore
Member



Joined: 2006/8/30
Posts: 122


 Re:

Hi brother,

Quote:
Claiming "law" was wrongly translated from the greek into the septuagint ( blah blah blah )



I agree with you and really don't care what (whoever they are) said. But when Jesus says, Law, Psalms, and Prophets He is clearly saying something.

What is it?

We know the psalms are part of the poetical scriptures. We know who the prophets are. And lastly we know where the "Law" is given in the OT. Would you not agree with this? The Jews put the "Tanak" (OT) into three sections, those mentioned above. What else could our Messiah been speaking of other than the section called "Torah". Look at the Jewish culture for this practice. You could go to any Barnes and Noble store, open up a "Jewish" not Messianic, OT and see for your self what and where the Jews break the scriptures down into. If you don't have the store mentioned above look it up online.

God be with you, bro Doug

 2006/10/3 20:29Profile





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