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Dougmore Member
Joined: 2006/8/30 Posts: 122
| Re: | | Thanks brother,
Am I correct in saying that you feel that because some of Torah was pictures of Christ they are now non applicable? Correct that thought if it is wrong.
In Christ, bro Doug |
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2006/9/29 22:20 | Profile |
sonofthunder Member
Joined: 2005/3/31 Posts: 419 Son Of Thunder i come from a land down under, due south at the bottom of your work globes
| Re: | | Im not quite sure what you mean by pictures.
Torah is the wrong and poor substitute for...law
Law is correctly translated into our bibles
So let's stay with the word law...to describe
His standards and boundaries !!
I guess we can go around in a never ending circle
But i'd rather not
I think where some of your own mis-understandings lie is in the fact " Jesus kept the law...the mosaic law and the the prophets - he kept "
And so as you say he told people that questioned him, what does the law say ?? and he'd reply go and do like-wise and you shall....live.
Jesus paul said in Galation 4:4 was made of a woman and made of "law"
Meaning Christ came in old-covanant times and so he himself kept and adhered to the law ( every-one was still under Mosaic-law ) correct ??
But as we learn from Hebrews chapter nine: Christ blood of the ["new-testament"] introduced new -covenant and new-testament.
Hence the new-testament was instigated and [introduced ] upon the death of the "testator" that being Jesus himself - of course.
So technically and scripturally the new testament was launched - upon his death - and not during his life. ( that is why he commended and practised the law of Moses ) saying go show yourself to the priest to the lepers and commending the pharisee's for their tithing principles.
As everyone including Jesus was "under" mosaic law.
Until his death - the death of the testator
And so really the blood of his new-teatament is effectively "launched" upon his death at calvary.
Matthew, mark, luke, and John are historical and documented accounts of a man and life ( Jesus ) who ministered under "law" and grace came with pentecost and the early apostles.
Paul undertstood this fully
But the Jews stumbled and resisted - Paul went to prison - why ??
Because he fought to implement grace and the new-testament into the churches !!!
The Jews thought it was blasphemy to desert Moses
And they must continue to preach moses in all the synagogues - even James the apostle - exhorted to continue preaching mosaic law ....until he finally saw that Paul was right, and the levitical priesthood and the mosaic law - even for the Jew had been dis-mantled and pulled down.
The transition was hard for the apostles themselves and why ??
Because they saw their Lord Jesus - keep and honour the law !!!
So when Paul said it's gone and done away
They struggled to accept that - as Jesus kept law
So making the adjustment and realizing his death was to introduce new-testamnt grace, and dis-mantle the "existing priesthood", was a huge obstacle for their minds to grasp and for them to- - let go off, and to move on - going forward.
Blindness is meant to fall on those who resist and fight the truth or genuine scriptural change. _________________ Bro Stephen
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2006/9/30 22:15 | Profile |
Dougmore Member
Joined: 2006/8/30 Posts: 122
| Re: | | Hi brother,
I agree with what you are saying concerning grace. And I understand what your saying about Torah. But when Jesus said, "Law,Psalms, and the Prophets, He is clearly speaking of Torah. Torah is the Law. It was Gods standard for OT believers. In Torah we see God Himself give the OT law.
In Christ, bro Doug |
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2006/10/1 18:43 | Profile |
ginnyrose Member
Joined: 2004/7/7 Posts: 7534 Mississippi
| Re: | | SOT wrote:
Quote:
gosh i wonder if i will BE nabbed for breaking the speed limit today or gosh i
Sir, after reading to this point I could no longer read your post...I find the swear word 'gosh' highly objectable. Does the commandment "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain" not mean anything to you?
ginnyrose _________________ Sandra Miller
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2006/10/2 0:31 | Profile |
| Re: | | One of my all time favorite books is John Fletchers "Checks to Antinomianism".
It's the best theological book I have ever read.
Fletcher writes public letters to ministers who were publicly attacking Wesley by calling him a heretic and a tool of the devil.Wesley was in his 70s during these letters.
But Fletcher hammers at the antinomianism of his day, the same antinomianism present in our own, and has very strong arguements where he uses scripture, reason, satire, quotes, etc etc.
He covers issues like original ability, conditional security, etc etc.
It's a classic and a must read. |
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2006/10/2 0:38 | |
sonofthunder Member
Joined: 2005/3/31 Posts: 419 Son Of Thunder i come from a land down under, due south at the bottom of your work globes
| Re: | | Is this person for real ??
Gosh is a "swear word" or is "profanity" ??
Well here in australia it isn't thought of in that way or manner
So how can you Impute sin to me - when i do not know that i have used ... profanity ??
If "gosh" is a euphornism for some swear word then i did not know that OKAY( so kindly practise love and extend forgiveness to me - and for MY alleged WRONG ) !!
OR DID YOU ALSO FORGET THIS COMMANDMENT - THAT IF YOUR BROTHER SINS AGAINST YOU - 70 times 7 IN ONE DAY = [490 times] - then you must continue to forgive him.
Or this commandment " love covers a multitude of sins " ?? and YOU HAVE TO get past all greviances AND OFFENCES TOWARDS YOU
( that is to say if im guilty as you say of THIS cuss word "GOSH" )
The truth lies much deeper THOUGH - than a petty greviance, or in this perceived objection !!
The devil does not want to be found out regarding THE mis-understanding and application of these 3 things
1.the place of law 2.AND - the place of works 3.and how they are "both" correctly applied in new-testament TIMES !!
Notwithstanding in this reply may God bless you, and may you know the riches of this grace that i speak of - in Christ !!
_________________ Bro Stephen
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2006/10/2 5:56 | Profile |
Dougmore Member
Joined: 2006/8/30 Posts: 122
| Re: | | Hi sister,
Quote:
I find the swear word 'gosh' highly objectable. Does the commandment "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain" not mean anything to you?
I completely understand what and where you are coming from. But may I ask, do you call Jehovah, "gosh"? Just curious. The true question is, can this be proven by scripture to be the name of Almighty God? Is there Hebrew or Greek that sheds light on this?
I don't believe there is.
In Christ Jesus, bro Doug |
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2006/10/3 18:54 | Profile |
sonofthunder Member
Joined: 2005/3/31 Posts: 419 Son Of Thunder i come from a land down under, due south at the bottom of your work globes
| Re: | | Hey i apolagize for the use of a "euphenism"
I looked it up in a dictionary and
and informally it means: to express surpise and amazement at something or someone !!
Which is all i meant to do by use of allegory
So again forgive me this wrong.
But let us not swallow camels any[more]( pardon the pun ) over such an matter.
Ive heard the "Jehovah" - argument before
Years ago the "freemanites" from Indiana use to argue thick and thin over this thing.
Incidently they were the advocates of those wanting the word "torah" to replace "law" in n.t scripture.
Claiming "law" was wrongly translated from the greek into the septuagint ( blah blah blah )
Doug years ago i learnt not to strive about words to no profit(except that they subvert the hearer)
And strivings about the....law
Titus was exhorted to abstain from it - also
YOUNG Timotheos: well he was told that some desire to be "teachers of the LAW" - but they neither knew what they were on about - nor what they were [affirming] - and consequently were given over to {vain jangling}
The simple answer for me is implicit trust in the KJV translators - and that they got it right !!!
And if i don't know the meaning of a word
I simply get several books to help [define] words
And along with [he] who guides into all truth {the comforter- the spirit of truth}in time i arrive at corrct definition.
It's interesting that Jesus said he is the spirit of truth - [that is the holy Ghost] AND JESUS DEFINED HIS ROLE AS "GUIDING INTO "ALL"...TRUTH
So he is the "truth guider"
And not the ( greek ) or the talmud, or alleged sea scrolls - or missing alleged cannonical gospels ad-infinitum.
So a big part of arriving at truth - is to listen to his voice, and not what others are necessarily writing about the - word of GOD.
If we substitute some author - or this book or that book - over - DIVINE SCRIPTURE.
That can be the source of all the mass confusion you see today over correct doctrine.
Just Too many people going around quoting this man and that man's writings...instead of the WORD of GOD.
Jehovah is in the kjv
SO at this stage Mr More - i just have to stay with the KJV.
Only exception is the voice of the comforter communicating to me - something perhaps went awry in the original 1611 translating process.
have a nice day in the saviour s.o.f
A good book has it's place, but as opposed to that of DIVINELY AUTHORED SCRIPTURE - well no COMPARISON, whatsoever !!! _________________ Bro Stephen
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2006/10/3 19:50 | Profile |
Dougmore Member
Joined: 2006/8/30 Posts: 122
| Re: | | Hi brother,
Quote:
Claiming "law" was wrongly translated from the greek into the septuagint ( blah blah blah )
I agree with you and really don't care what (whoever they are) said. But when Jesus says, Law, Psalms, and Prophets He is clearly saying something.
What is it?
We know the psalms are part of the poetical scriptures. We know who the prophets are. And lastly we know where the "Law" is given in the OT. Would you not agree with this? The Jews put the "Tanak" (OT) into three sections, those mentioned above. What else could our Messiah been speaking of other than the section called "Torah". Look at the Jewish culture for this practice. You could go to any Barnes and Noble store, open up a "Jewish" not Messianic, OT and see for your self what and where the Jews break the scriptures down into. If you don't have the store mentioned above look it up online.
God be with you, bro Doug
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2006/10/3 20:29 | Profile |