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K_DAY
Member



Joined: 2006/7/28
Posts: 144
Ann Arbor, MI

 A disturbing incident

Today, I was walking through campus and saw a group preaching in one of the busiest places of campus. They had their large signs about repentence, and "turn to Jesus, you are going to hell." I didn't sense a lot of love of compassion comming from them, but I was glad to hear preaching that didn't exclude judgement repentence and hell (although, I am not sure I heard much about grace).

I sat down on a bench nearby to listen to them and discern for myself how I felt about their message, and pray that there would be fertile soil there. One of the girls who just got done preaching walked over to me and about 6 other people and looked at us and called us all cowards. I tried to explain:

"No, I agree with your message. I am a Christian myself. I believe everyone should hear the gospel, and that people need to be told about repentance and hell."

She cut me off. "How can you call yourself my brother. We are out here getting persecuted, and you just sit there."

I tried to explain, but she kept cutting me off. "You are not a Christian."

I couldn't get any words in. She looked me in the eye and said, "You are going to hell."

What?!?! At that point, I just walked away. It all felt so evil. I agreed with their message, but it just seemed so full of hatred. I had it in my heart to pray for them, and to talk to them and encourage them and ask where they fellowship, but instead I got condemned to hell.

She told her own brother she is going to hell. This isn't right is it? It isn't Biblical to tell everyone they are going to hell, even though some might actually not be on that path, is it? She knew nothing about me or my life. Has anyone else had experiences like this. I was so frustrated...

-K DAY

 2006/9/13 23:11Profile
allhavsinned
Member



Joined: 2005/8/1
Posts: 201
North West England

 Re: A disturbing incident

It sounds to me like these preachers were doing it for their own glory and not out of love or compassion for the lost.

Myself, I have been asked directly by an unsaved person 'Am I going to Hell then?'. As I am not their judge I won't say yes or no, but I will tell them that the bible clearly says that if we don't repent of our sin and put our trust in Jesus, then we will be punished for rejecting Him and that means an eternity in hell. Not my words, but God's.

We must put forward the Full Gospel, (not just 'Jesus loves you and wants to be your friend') and allow that seed to take root. We are not to judge when we are unable to point out obvious sin in the lives of others.

To be told you are going to Hell just because you are sitting on a bench, is as unchristian as the pharasees Jesus warned us against.

How many people did Jesus tell 'you are going to Hell?'

I am all for hell fire preaching, these people have to know about the wrath to come, but they need to know that Jesus is giving them the oppertunity to flee to Him, and get saved.

Don't be too frustrated, pray for this lady and her friends that Jesus will guide them in all truth. And don't forget we should all be praying; "Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:
And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting." Psalm 139:23+24

Ste


_________________
Ste

 2006/9/14 0:00Profile









 Re:

We must talk with people having compassion, others we must tell and save with fear, pulling them out of the fire. We must hate even the garment spotted by the flesh and show people their transgressions. We must show them precisely what they've done wrong, that they've actually made God there enemy, that they are enemys of God in their mind through wicked works.

But we must let men know the Lord's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save (Isaiah 59:1). Unless a sinner understands the disease though, he won't be able to appreciate the cure. A sinner must realize the horribly state he is in, that he might AWAKE from his slumber, repent and trust in Jesus Christ to save him from his sins and from hell and give him new life.

Preach 90% law, 10% grace.

Your law preaching though cannot be vain words, or babbling, or nonsense, but must be quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword. Your law preaching must pierce and even cut through the soul and spirit, the joints and marrow. Your law preaching should expose peoples vileness and make men cry out for mercy. Every word that comes out of your mouth should have the authority of heaven.

Men are not ready for grace untill the Law prepares the way.

Paul Mcgrade

 2006/9/14 3:17
Spitfire
Member



Joined: 2004/8/3
Posts: 633


 Re:

Duncan Campbell said,

[i][b]Preaching truth without the anointing of the Holy Ghost is helping the devil to damn souls. There's nothing on earth today so deadening as preaching without heaven's anointing. Refrain from preaching unless you know that the dew of heaven is on your soul."[/b][/i]

The problem, as I see it, is that people haven't spent enough time humbling themselves before God. Art Katz says, "Anointing comes, simply, from a series of mini obediences." Also, people are simply trying to build a reputation for themselves with people. They are still looking for their affirmation from people instead of God.

I was someone who walked around Christian circles looking for those who had "clout" to endorse me. I know. You aren't humble and broken until you have no one but God and you're not mad about it. Love, Dian.

 2006/9/14 6:27Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Spitfire wrote:
Duncan Campbell said,

[i][b]Preaching truth without the anointing of the Holy Ghost is helping the devil to damn souls. There's nothing on earth today so deadening as preaching without heaven's anointing. Refrain from preaching unless you know that the dew of heaven is on your soul."[/b][/i]

The problem, as I see it, is that people haven't spent enough time humbling themselves before God. Art Katz says, "Anointing comes, simply, from a series of mini obediences." Also, people are simply trying to build a reputation for themselves with people. They are still looking for their affirmation from people instead of God.

I was someone who walked around Christian circles looking for those who had "clout" to endorse me. I know. You aren't humble and broken until you have no one but God and you're not mad about it. Love, Dian.



How true. We all longed for companionship with like minded folk. Time revealed the "likemindedness" to me. I now stand pretty much alone....as Jesus said we would if we genuinely embrace Him.

There are two groups of people in those outdoor meetings. Most are good [hurting] righteous young men and women who are looking for hope and meaning to their lives. They don't need to necessarily repent. What they need is someone to believe in. It will be to those that the word of the Lord will come if presented from the annointing. The preaching of hell's fire and brimstone won't be necessary. Discipleship will happen. Who will disciple them?

:-(

 2006/9/14 7:25
Dougmore
Member



Joined: 2006/8/30
Posts: 122


 Re: A disturbing incident

Hi K_Day,

I'm from a Pentecostal background and a church that said that this person and that person was going to hell. That is quite stupid if you want my opinion. This women that you spoke of sounds like she is motivated by hate rather than love. there must be a balance of judgement and grace. All these people did was inoculate the students at the college from hearing the full Gospel. Did these preachers even show the hearers their sins and needed repentance. or did they just shoot into the dark an arrow of repentance without explanation? They sound like humanistic theology comes out in their preaching. We cant make a true convert by just scaring them away from hell.

Name calling is really going to get the message of Christ out there. Ha!!!

Quote:
called us all cowards.



And yet another problem...

Quote:
One of the girls who just got done preaching



This girl should not have been preaching. And should not at all have exerted authority over the male Christians. A complete violation of 1 Timothy 2:12. "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man..."

I'd say that they were the ones that are off, not you.

In Christ, bro Doug

 2006/9/14 8:18Profile
K_DAY
Member



Joined: 2006/7/28
Posts: 144
Ann Arbor, MI

 Re:

Quote:
"Preaching truth without the anointing of the Holy Ghost is helping the devil to damn souls. There's nothing on earth today so deadening as preaching without heaven's anointing. Refrain from preaching unless you know that the dew of heaven is on your soul.



Wow, I have never heard that before, but that quote does such an amazing job at expressing what I have felt for a long time. I have done some open air preaching, but I havn't sensed that it is at this point something God is asking me to divest my time in. Instead, He has me digging in and getting built up in the word and in prayer. Sometimes I have too much zeal to do and not enough zeal to get equipped.

"It is not good to have zeal without knowledge, nor to be hasty and miss the way." -Proverbs 19:2

Quote:
This women that you spoke of sounds like she is motivated by hate rather than love. there must be a balance of judgement and grace.



That is exactly the feeling I got.

Quote:
Did these preachers even show the hearers their sins and needed repentance. or did they just shoot into the dark an arrow of repentance without explanation?



The worst part is that no one actually was listening to them. Everyone would walk by and hear a couple of accusations and then move on. I am not sure I can really say that anyone who heard them preaching came away with a full and complete understanding of the gospel.

Thanks for the comments. I wanted to be sure I just wasn't being hard hearted about all this since I was personally offended.

-K DAY

 2006/9/14 11:33Profile
NLONG
Member



Joined: 2006/8/17
Posts: 111
Middlebury, Indiana

 Re: A disturbing incident

Sorry to hear about this very unfortunate and uncalled for incident. I started to street preach occasionally about a year ago. If one doesn't balance the mercy and severity of God (grace and judgment) then it's really easy to get off on tangents. It's so easy to get bent on condemnation--too easy! I hope I've never preached, "You're going to Hell!" This raises an important question: Is it's my job to warn the lost or to save souls? That is SAVE souls not win souls. Once I saw my place and purpose was simply to convey the message of the cross (verbally and physically), I concentrated way more on the message and not the outcome. One may say, how many souls have you led to Christ. My reply, I lead someone to Christ each time the Truth comes out of my mouth, each time I act in love for God's glory, each time I pray with someone.

There are several scriptures that implore us to lead people to Christ in love, gentleness and kindness. Main preaching scripture is 2 Tim. 2:23-26--"But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will." Another good one is Titus 3:1-8. Other scriptures implore us not to be brawlers or railers or argumentative. I know of only one scripture that may indicate severity--Jude 1:22-23.

If we are Christ's then we will walk as He walked. He did not come to condemn, but to save. We shouldn't break the bruised reeds. We should make the message as profitable to all as God leads us.

Trying to be objective, I can understand this womans frustration. Sometimes its difficult to see Christians sitting and not doing. But it is a major assumption for me to say you don't do anything relevant for Christ and His kingdom. Also, it is difficult to be persecuted, especially by professing Christians (not saying you did). This woman should be rejoicing to suffer for Christ that's what the scriptures say. Hopefully, if you meet with this type of person again you can share the attitude that a follower of Christ should have.

Doug, I still haven't come to grips with should a woman preach (on the street). I know Paul states twice that He doesn't allow them to teach men due to what took place in the garden--deception. However, 1 Cor 11 states that women should pray and prophesy. I see preaching, at least on the street, as very prophetic in nature. Right now, our women don't preach. Neither do the children. However, both do sing hymns and pass out tracks. Also, the women to minister to other women.


_________________
Neil Long

 2006/9/14 14:20Profile
allhavsinned
Member



Joined: 2005/8/1
Posts: 201
North West England

 Re:

Orm wrote:

Quote:


There are two groups of people in those outdoor meetings. Most are good [hurting] righteous young men and women who are looking for hope and meaning to their lives. They don't need to necessarily repent. What they need is someone to believe in. It will be to those that the word of the Lord will come if presented from the annointing. The preaching of hell's fire and brimstone won't be necessary. Discipleship will happen. Who will disciple them?

:-(



Sorry, Orm, that's not scriptural:
Romans 3:12 There is none that doeth good, no, not one.
and 2Peter 3:9 The Lord is... not willing that any should perish but that ALL should come to repentance.

I agree there are many hurting people out there, the problem is not to get them to realise they are hurting, but that we have the solution to their hurt because we used to hurt the same way and Christ has saved us and given us hope.

I don't agree that they need something to believe in. Jesus is not something to be believed in, like a lucky charm, but someone to be trusted and obeyed. We don't add Him to our lives, we give our lives to Him, to do with whatever He wants
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Our compassion must be spirit led, as with our preaching, otherwise we are a sounding gong or ringing bell - they are so annoying!

As for discipling, well, we can only disciple true converts, who have a desire to get to know God and who want to tell others about what He has done for them.

Orm have you listened to 'Ten Shekels and a Shirt'? If not I fully reccomend it, it's the top download on this site. It helps us to put our Christian life in perspective: 'Those who are truly saved are people like this, who say; Lord I'm going to love you and obey you even if I go to Hell when I die, simply because you are worthy of all love and honour and to be obeyed' (From memory, not a proper quote)

In Christ

Ste


_________________
Ste

 2006/9/14 18:02Profile









 K-Day

two things bro, that girl.....bro, these are dark days, they have been since the Curtain was torn in two, but their are bright times also.

As I learned of the ministry of Keith Green the other day, I urge you to listen to some of the Duncan Campbell sermons on this site...go for the ones where he speaks of the Fire falling in the hebrides revival in 1949-53, also punch his name into Google, this man was a great vessel of Christ, truly worth emulating.

wash your soul of that poison you were exposed to the other day. I know its easier said than done, but hey!! you can start by listening to some Duncan Campbell!!

xo in Christ, bartle

 2006/9/14 18:21





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