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hmmhmm
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Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

i havent come to an end of this yet..but im thinking of...that god some how is sorting the belivers from the fake ones... he sorts they who "left all" and those who cling on to the world... he sort good from bad fruit.... and i belive he does that right here right now... and the choise we have is simple.... pick up our cross...lay down our will...follow him do his will, no matter the consecuense, he picked out a people since we are so infected and misereble in sin... he cleansed us, he made us, he did all for us... now we spend our entire life to give glory and obey him in even the smallest thing, no matter suffering or offering or what people might say, and in doing this thing even thou he knows who will recive him and not...he sorts out they who obey him...and they who dont, right now today...

jesus said....its going to be hard... many will try... and over and over i read struggle... its going to be tough.. but its worth it! even if i get killed, then they just solved my problem :) im dead and free from sin and home whit my master...

why god made it this way i dont know.. but he did ..and i want to follow.... i know there is many more things to it than this...but this is a start..
christian


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CHRISTIAN

 2006/9/14 6:07Profile
hmmhmm
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Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

but still if god chose me? how could i resist him? i would never chose that...but if god decided me to be saved... what could i have done against almighty gods decision? i cansee its only becuse his holy love and grace that he chose me... but did i actually have a choise?

there is my dilemma... it doesent really mattrer...but im saved and i think if one is born of god...one stays that way...as i understand scripture...but people say decide...take a decision now! but if god already have made that desicion......
ill go think some more :)

christian


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CHRISTIAN

 2006/9/14 8:20Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:

hmmhmm wrote:
i havent come to an end of this yet..but im thinking of...that god some how is sorting the belivers from the fake ones... he sorts they who "left all" and those who cling on to the world... he sort good from bad fruit


[b]Mathew 25:32[/b] [color=990000]And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
[b]:33[/b] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.[/color]

Quote:
but still if god chose me? how could i resist him? i would never chose that...but if god decided me to be saved... what could i have done against almighty gods decision? i cansee its only becuse his holy love and grace that he chose me... but did i actually have a choise?


Look at it in that He persuaded you to choos Him.
Otherwise, He would be cruel by not choosing you.

[b]Mathew 20:16[/b] [color=990000]So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.[/color]

Why are "few" chosen?
Because He knows that they will not come because they were not persuaded.

Notice, even Judas who betrayed Jesus was called.

[b]Mathew 22:11[/b] [color=990000]And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
[b]:12[/b] And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
[b]:13[/b] Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
[b]:14[/b] For many are called, but few are chosen.[/color]
This man was called but he was not persuaded to ware the wedding garment

 2006/9/14 12:19Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

This pretty much sums it up.


Romans 9:10-24 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/9/15 3:32Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: to Christian

Christian, I really like your thoughts here. They speak of the cost of following Christ – and that you can’t have the best of both worlds. I’m going to challenge just one thought (at the end)

Quote:
that god some how is sorting the belivers from the fake ones... he sorts they who "left all" and those who cling on to the world... he sort good from bad fruit.... and i belive he does that right here right now... and the choise we have is simple.... pick up our cross...lay down our will...follow him do his will, no matter the consecuense, he picked out a people since we are so infected and misereble in sin... he cleansed us, he made us, he did all for us... now we spend our entire life to give glory and obey him in even the smallest thing, no matter suffering or offering or what people might say, and in doing this thing even thou he knows who will recive him and not...he sorts out they who obey him...and they who dont, right now today..



Christian, I see in scripture that the great separation out occurs at the very end, not now. “Let them both grow until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds…… ” Matt 13:30 Even Jesus refused to judge while he was on earth, because it wasn’t time. “God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world…. “Jn 3:17 Of course, that wouldn’t mean that God doesn’t already foreknow the end results. What do you think?

Quote:
but did i actually have a choise?


How about reshaping the question: What is my choice, and what is not my choice?
It is never my choice that God dispense mercy on me. That’s up to him. But to think that I passively enter the kingdom or not without the exercise of my choice would be a horrible way to live. I was taught that kind of stuff when I was a kid – and believe me – it’s rotten doctrine. It leaves you feeling so helpless and strips you of personal responsibility. Also, you do a lot of judging. . ex: “Oh, Mr. Hothead, he’s going to hell for sure…” . “I know God can’t possibly love me enough…”, or ‘I’m so good, I know I must be one of his elect.” etc


Quote:
...but people say decide...take a decision now….


This practice really bugs me, because here man is trying to play God. That’s like a person trying to force a seed to be a tree overnight – without even planting it in the dirt first. You end up making a lot of plastic trees. God has an entire lifetime to work on a person – and he can handle them quite well. And HE is the one who works on our will – first to free it up enough to decide.

You can’t decide what path to take when you’re in the dark, when you can’t even see the paths. And it takes divine enlightenment to “get it”. (We need God for that.)

Well, Christian, that’s the way I have come to see it right now. I know that there is a lot I do not understand about God and his ways.

What do you think?

Diane


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Diane

 2006/9/15 8:20Profile
hmmhmm
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Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
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 Re:

well i think there is a point there
quote

Christian, I see in scripture that the great separation out occurs at the very end, not now. “Let them both grow until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds…… ” Matt 13:30 Even Jesus refused to judge while he was on earth, because it wasn’t time. “God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world…. “Jn 3:17 Of course, that wouldn’t mean that God doesn’t already foreknow the end results. What do you think?



i understand we mature and grow... and i do think he knows the result...
and of course i remember "deciding" to follow him...or rather i just gave up and as a last "hope" trowed myself upon christ as savior..i dident really know what christianity was about..i really dident know what jesus did here. As i see my choise then was either belive in this jesus...or well the only thing i had left here was death... i choose christ i dident have any expectations really... but i know from the location where i "accepted him" to my home whitch is about a seven min walk... i know the man who entered in at home wasent the same man who left, i decided to belive in him... i see that.

but i dont know... what i meen by today now...right now..is about following every day... i know so many "christians" who for example smoke ciggaretes... ive asked them do you think thats ok? they have responded that they await the holy ghost to convict them first... i really dident know what to awnser them...but if we know what do decide shouldent we make that decision right here right now today? i know he will separete all one day... but isent there a separation right now? trials and tests? to see whos dening self and following him? who are willing? who will pick up the cross? what about the figtree? when jesus says every tree that dosent bear fruit will be cast into the fire? or when he gives it one more year...maybe i misunderstand... so dosent christ then separate those who dident bear fruit? now?

christian


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CHRISTIAN

 2006/9/15 9:06Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

this give me some "deeper" understanding

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


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CHRISTIAN

 2006/9/15 11:02Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: Is my will free?

Christian I really enjoyed reading your testimony. Thank you for sharing that. That helps me know what your thinking about, and I realize that I wasn’t quite with your drift.

Quote:
we make that decision right here right now today?

Every good doctrine so easily gets off center. The notion that we are passive objects of the Spirit is one example. It’s practised in church a lot – especially in the “worship” time. Personally I feel it is more occultish than Biblical. It disables and weakens the will. So you delay a decision to stop smoking or overeating because you are waiting for a force to act on you. You don’t even think you CAN choose. In fact, you really can't choose until you get your will back - and that may take some divine work in your heart.

"Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion." 2 Cor. 9:7 This verse makes sense to me if I apply it to everything I do (after all, my entire life is an offering to God).

In other words, my responses are to be the result of MY will ( my "want-to"), not the will of another force upon us – be it natural (others) or supernatural (spirits)

I have come to believe that God never forces himself upon my will, or anyone’s will. Do you think that is true?

Is God not pleased when we make a godly choice because we WANT TO.

Diane



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Diane

 2006/9/15 11:24Profile
hmmhmm
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Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

i do belive that...or i belive that if i should want to continue in sin... for example if i were to chose to continue to lust for women or continue to take drugs or whatever that i know is wrong...i dont think god "forces" himself upon me... but (correct me if im wrong) isent there some passege where it says god left them to thier sins? what i meen if i choose to continue to live in sin, i know its sin...i know god dosent like it...as i understand he hates it. then he lets me go to my sins if i chóse my sins?

this is geting deep now for me,i have so many thoughts i dont know now :) i have do think some pray some read some... then write some

christian


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CHRISTIAN

 2006/9/15 11:44Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: consequences of sin

Quote:
i belive that if i should want to continue in sin... for example if i were to chose to continue to lust for women or continue to take drugs or whatever that i know is wrong...i dont think god "forces" himself upon me... but (correct me if im wrong) isent there some passege where it says god left them to thier sins?


Are you referring to this scripture in Romans One?

"21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts..."

….Which is exactly what they want! In other words, God further hardens sinners by letting them have what they want - so that they can face the ultimate consequences for their own choices . (Think of the Prodigal Son Parable)

We all know: if you continue to do drugs, obvious consequences await you. If you fool around sexually, you can’t assume immunity from a variety of consequences. If you continue to overeat, you get fat, that that includes all the consequences: heart disease, etc. If you insist on worrying, you ruin your body and mind eventually. ….. You don’t have to be a Christian to know that!

Sadly, a lot of professing Christians think that because they are saved, they have special divine protection from consequences. Of course, you know that is nonsense!

Yet God’s mercy has spared many of natural consequences, including death. I know of some who should have had STDs when they were rebellious teens, but God’s mercy seemed to overrule many times. They sure didn’t deserve it.

For some reason God spares sinners in order to give them plenty time to repent. Each day is a merciful gift. After all,"He is not willing that any should perish".

The point: God’s mercy is a precious gift, not to be assumed. What an awesome God we have!

Am I on the same wave-length as you, Christian?
Quote:
this is geting deep now for me,


It looks like you can swim!
Diane


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Diane

 2006/9/15 12:50Profile





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