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 "Christian caught establishing the the Spirit"?

The recent postings concerning the Tattoo and the discussions of it being Old Testament Law have got me thinking, "But I thought we establish the law, not make it void".Rom 3:31

So I would like to raise again the discussion of our relationship with the Law as christian's. I will try to keep it brief.

2 Peter 3:15-17 cautions about Paul's words..."in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto thier own destruction" I belive Peter was speeking of how certain were taking the teaching of not under law but under grace and then using it to make a license for sin. I'm sure there was other things peter was pointing out but I belive this is the key thing.

So I will put forth scriptures concerning the law and put for an anolgy and then try and wrap it up. Then we'll see if it has any merit from our wide range of fellow believers on this forum.

Matt 5:17-19 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:I am not come to destroy but to fulfill.For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass,one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law,till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven"

Romans 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes we establish the law."

Romans 7:12 "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just and good."

1 John 3:4 " Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law for sin is the transgression of the law"

1 Tim 1:8-11 " But we know the law is good, if a man use it lawfully.Knowing this, that the law is not made for a rightous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane...(read the rest yourself)...and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine".

In 1 Cor 6:9, Gal 5:16 and Ephesians 5:5,6 Paul warns Christians that whoever does these evil things listed,(which are transgressions of the law or carnal works of the flesh) will not inherit the kingdom of God.

So what am I getting at? A man is guilty of sin, transgression of the law, which is ultimatly transgression against God. We know he cannot be saved by keeping the law because he would have to keep it perfectly to be saved; but he can;t. He is saved by the hearing of faith recieving the Holy Spirit. He now can walk in the Spirit and establish ,or fulfill the law, because he walks by the Spirit not by the flesh. He no longer purposely violates the law because he walks by the Spirit and the Spirit would not purposely violate the law. In fact he now has it written on his heart. He even knows certain things are wrong even though he can't yet explain it from scripture because he is still a babe concerning the scriptures,(someone who has just benn born again). Examples would be many of the things we now call doudtfull, rock music,inappopiate movies,tattooing, piercing gambling ,all the "wordly" stuff that many of us know is not right.

But then comes hyper teachings one way or the other, coupled with the christians flesh wanted to resurrect and make war against the Spirit. The flesh wars against the Spirit by doing disobedient things that grieve the Spirit. The christian falls prey to the reasoning of the fleshly mind and compromises the Spirit and the law and does those things which are against the Sword of the Spirit, the word of God, both old and new testamanet.

Analogy: Tha law say's drive 55. It's a good law, saves lives. The sinful driver breaks the law by driving 65-70. The law catches him, writes a ticket for breaking the law. Later sinful man get's saved. Now agrees with law that it is good and dosen't want to speed. His mind is renewed He drives 55 and has no worries of the law getting him becuase his heart is changed and he is humble too and agrees with the law and obeys the law.
Another former sinful driver now saved, drives, breaks the 55 speed limit, gets pulled over by the law. He tells the law "oh I am not under the law anymore so you can't write me a ticket" Law looks at him and then hands him the ticket saying,"no one is above the law and because you purposely broke it you are now back under the law, have a nice day.
Finally another saved driver is driving doing 55 however he begins to think of ,let's say the horrible day of sept 11th. he is in deep thought thinking of all the things he saw that day. He unkowingly begins to apply pressure on the peddle and is now breaking the law doing 65. The law pulls him over. Do you know how fast you were going. yes mr law i was speeding, I agree with you and I am sorry. I will accept the ticket. At this point the police office,law, may say, "ok don't let it happen again. have a nice day" and writes him no ticket because he was humble.

Whew well I know anologies can break down and be torn apart easily. I wanted to try and convey that We as christians need to adjust our view of the law and the Spirit and our obedience to holiness back to the old paths.

I don't think this post is perfect or complete. But I thought I should post it in the event it may help us a little more on our pilgrims progress. God bless, John

 2006/9/4 9:25

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707

 Re: "Christian caught establishing the the Spirit"?


""He is saved by the hearing of faith recieving the Holy Spirit. He now can walk in the Spirit and establish ,or fulfill the law, because he walks by the Spirit not by the flesh.""

Is born again receiving the Holy Spirit? Is Pentecost being born again?

Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Who is the Incorruptable Seed and The Word of God that lives and dwells forever, by which we
are born again. Is this the Holy Spirit.

"Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

Do we see the Kingdom of God because of the Holy
Spirit baptized into us, or do we see the Kingdom of God because we are born again by the Incorruptable Seed. That is the Spirit of Christ.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

Who sealed us into Christ? Jhn 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for Him hath God the Father sealed.

There has to be a Father to produce Seed. Just like Mary The Father's Seed by the Holy Spirit brought the birth of Jesus Christ to the world.

Now the Incorruptable Seed produced by the Father, that is Christ. Again the Holy Spirit seals that birth in the new believer, that is the Born Again dynamics.

Ephesians 1:11-13 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

We don't need the word written on our heart, only the saints that are left in the millennial Kingdom need this process.

We have Christ in us and He is now our life. Let us know and believe that we have the Mind of Christ in us and have a new heart and spirit, that is the Spirit of Christ, this is our life.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

1 John 5:11-13 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

In Christ: Phillip


 2006/9/4 21:06Profile

Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia


Brother Ciy,

All Christians have some measure of the Holy Ghost.

The Holy Ghost being received is different from being filled, though both can occur upon conversion:

John 20:22b "...Receive ye the Holy Ghost"

...and then the same ones who had already received the Holy Ghost...

Acts 2:4a "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost..."

The Holy Ghost had already been given before Pentecost, but not in fullness because they hadn't tarried in importunate prayer. The Spirit came in fullness after the disciples 'tarried until they were endued with power from on high.'

All saved individuals have the Spirit in some measure, very few are filled...much fewer than claim to be. This concept is one of the many cases in which the Scriptures paint out for us that we are to continually seek after God's outpouring regardless of where we are spiritually, and regardless of what experiences we have had.

So, no Pentecost is not being born again, but yes, when one is born again, they receive the Holy Spirit. If not, what happened in John 20:22?

Hal Bachman

 2006/9/6 0:35Profile

Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re: "Christian caught establishing the the Spirit"?

To original post:

I agree with you in that we establish the law just as Christ did. Not that we save anyone of ourselves, but Christ working in us, preaching the law to prepare men for grace. Then the Spirit speaking with a converted man's spirit to convict him of sin, he no longer needs a teacher, for the Just One who will 'guide us into all truth' resides in him:

1 John 2:27 " need not that any man teach you..."

Hal Bachman

 2006/9/6 0:42Profile

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