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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : New 95 Theses

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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

Quote:
I do not want to soap box this but when the schemes and systems of men set up a "priesthood" which keeps one from fully finding a deep dependance on Christs revealed will, and only the eldership can find His precious mind, then I must say beware.


yes I agree, but thats not happening as you paint the picture at KSB. The pastors responsiblity is to speak the words of God and the mind of God to the people, pastors in our day have lost that awesome resonsibilty and depth of calling.

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Keep up the good work This site is the most amazing place I have found in a long long time


Thank you brother, I hope you spend alot more time here and tell many others. :-D


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/1/22 6:19Profile
moreofHim
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Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re:

Quote:
I heard of a church in Africa where there are 2 christian elders who stand at the entrance of the Church with a gift of discernment. And when they greet people, if they sense there is a sin or problem they will bring the person aside before they go in the church and pray and ask for confession from that person. Sometime the elders will be revealed the sin outright in their minds. This keeps brothers and sisters from practicing sin amongst the believers and partaking of communion at the same time.



I do not like to debate but when Paulus first commented about this thread, I knew exactly what he was talking about. This is somehwat similar to the "covering" issue that I replied to under "Dominionism". It's about control.

I think this can be a little dangerous. If we confess, it should be out of willingness and because we feel terrible (convicted ) about what we have done. there is no point in someone else pointing out our sins to us and then repenting in their presence if there was no real conviction in the first place. This seems very controlling to me and I don't see Jesus much in this.

If we are walking as we should and are accountable to the Holy spirit then we will do what we should and repent. If we fell the need to confess to one another - after we are convicted by the Holy Spirit- then wonderful.

I would never go to a church that someone (a person) could know everything I did wrong. The only one I feel comfortable doing that with is the Lord. Men are infallable. God is not.

There is a fine line here of accountability and control. No person can "make" sure that every one is sin free.

I also disagree with this whole system of levels of authority and who answers to who.
Quote:
The pastor has no mare of Jesus than you or anyone else. It is not what you know, but Who you know- and what you do with Who you know. ~C.Brogden



I don't mean to sound uptight but this does stir me a bit. These men who are in authority and require certain things from you- has Jesus given them more authority than any lay person? This is all an heirarchy system it seems.

You are right that at past revival many people do repent and do it publically- that is because the Holy Spirit has so convicted them and has worked in such a way through the speaker. Revival repentance works through the Holy Spirit - not by man or man's way or rules or authority. That is not true repentance.

In Him, Chanin


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Chanin

 2004/1/22 6:30Profile
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
There is a fine line here of accountability and control. No person can "make" sure that every one is sin free.


In my church there is no accountablity, they don't want to offend people. You could be living like a devil and chances are nobody is going to say anything. That's very far from new testament Christianity and breeds a worldliness and backslidden church. I encourage everyone to read the thesis part on [b]church discipline[/b]!

Quote:
I don't mean to sound uptight but this does stir me a bit. These men who are in authority and require certain things from you- has Jesus given them more authority than any lay person? This is all an heirarchy system it seems.


I don't want to disagree with you so much Chanin (moreofhim) cause I respect you alot. But I really do think that God gives more authority to certain parts of the body. The weaker parts are more valuable, but some parts have a responsiblity and calling from God.

[b]1 Timothy 5:17-20[/b] - The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, "Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain," and "The worker deserves his wages." Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/1/22 6:38Profile
moreofHim
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 Re:

I won't push the issue any farther either. I don't believe debating is worth it. If i am wrong then i am very willing for the Lord to show me (through man if necessary) but if i am not wrong- then it still does not really benefit anyone really either.

Greg, boy, i can just see us now- with the same zeal- how we could argue, almost like a sister and brother- but in the end, the only thing that matters is Jesus and that we love we have for each other through Christ. I'd rather have the love. :-D

Anyway, the Lord really spoke to me last year about having and learning how to have "forebearance". As a John the baptist-type, this is very important. I have been trying to heed it ever since. Looks like I failed a bit here and let my "opionions" get the best of me. :-)

Forbearance: An Expression of Living Christ (1)
~~~
Phil. 4:5 Let your forbearance be known to all men. The Lord
is near. (6) In nothing be anxious, but in everything, by
prayer and petition with thanksgiving, let your requests be
made known to God.
~~~~

The first aspect of the expression of a life that lives
Christ is forbearance. Philippians 4:5 says, "Let your
forbearance be known to all men." Later we shall see that a
second aspect is the absence of anxiety. In a life that lives
Christ there will be forbearance, but no anxiety, no worry.
Paul considers forbearance and the lack of anxiety as the
first two aspects of the expression of a life that lives
Christ.

A life that lives Christ is calm, tranquil, peaceful, and
quiet. A life of turmoil, on the contrary, is a life that
lives Satan. Forbearance is the most important element of a
tranquil life. Forbearance is reasonableness and
consideration in dealing with others. To have forbearance is
to deal with others without strictness of legal right. If we
would live a calm life, we must have forbearance.

Forbearance includes patience and moderation, but goes beyond
them. If you have forbearance, you will not argue with
others, fight with them, or debate with them. You may have a
great deal to say, but you will have patience and moderation
in dealing with others and will not say anything in response
to provocation or irritation. Forbearance is versus rivalry
and vainglory, two negative things mentioned by Paul.
Forbearance is also opposed to murmurings and reasonings.
Whenever we have rivalry, vainglory, murmurings, and
reasonings, there is no calm, no tranquility, no forbearance. ~Witness Lee

In His love, Chanin


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Chanin

 2004/1/22 7:15Profile
Paulus
Member



Joined: 2004/1/15
Posts: 87
Celbridge Kildare Ireland

 Re:

Project Peter

Thanks for info. I have looked at the site and see that the format is very like the conference run here in Dublin May last year when Gary and David addressed the assemblied Pastors of Ireland.

As regards the Thesis I said at the outset that it was a good solid outline. No problems there , the fellowship I grew up in was the same. Good solid doctrine preached but with the overlay of the heavy shepherding.

Yes I am a bit of a TSC fan!! So compare the description of Erlo and how he "recieves" messages via one of his Mama's (in private) with the description of DW wrestling alone with the Holy Spirit and the Word of God.

I will email TSC Mission and ask their opinion!

Thanks again for info

PC


:-D


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Paul R Carley

 2004/1/22 8:08Profile





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