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OverSeer
Member



Joined: 2006/7/15
Posts: 153
Geneva, Alabama

 Re:

In his book, [i]Return to Worship[/i], Ron Owens, has several chapters dealing with music in the church. In chapter or "letter" 27, entitled The Language and Power of Music, he says,

Quote:
The fundamental question in determining whether something is right or wrong is not, "What are the consequences?" or, "Does it fit into the way people think?" or even, "Will the result be favorable or unfavorable?" The fundamental question must be, "Does it adhere to the standards of God as set forth in His Word?"



Our worship is not for the purpose of pleasing people - it is for pleasing God. Worship that is man-centered is untrue to the very nature of the God we say we've come to worship.

But this reversal of true worship has not only infiltrated worship music - it has also infiltrated much of today's modern preaching.

Psalm 80:3 - "Turn us again, O God, and cause they face to shine; and we shall be saved."

Grace and peace
Olan


_________________
Olan Strickland

 2006/8/7 8:51Profile









 Re:

Not trying to be inflammatory here... but... who cares what the Pope has to say about anything?

Krispy

 2006/8/7 11:28









 Re: The Pope Calls for an End to Popular Music in Church

Krispy said:

Quote:
Not trying to be inflammatory here... but... who cares what the Pope has to say about anything?

Well, here's why I care. The Pope is a very influential world figure, and the Vatican, being a sovreign state has a seat at the UN.

Those two facts would matter less, if it were not that this particular Pope, with his conservatism, sounds just like an evangalical on many issues.

To those who don't know the difference, they perceive a unification of thinking between Catholic and Protestant, and then they make the incorrect deduction that it doesn't make any difference to their eternal welfare, if they remain Catholic - or, if they [i]become[/i] Catholic.

This supreme deception is the main reason I am concerned every time I hear the Pope echoing truth, whether it is clearly biblical, or merely popular (and not wrong for either of those categories).

Over here (UK), the old Labour Party was turned into 'New Labour' by Tony Blair who leapt at the opportunity to stand for leadership when the previous leader died suddenly, not as an old man, either, leaving the perceived natural successor to recover from the shock of both events.

One of the strongest accusations which has been levelled at New Labour, is that it won the Conservative vote by stealing their policies. I see the same 'picture' in the Pope having an opinion about popular music in church, just at the same time as the American church is waking up to the emptiness of some of what its leaders have been teaching it to sing. I'd be surprised if this is a co-incidence, but hey! Surprise me.... ;-)

 2006/8/7 12:17
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: The Pope Calls for an End to Popular Music in Church




Whoa! ... Looks like many of us really missed the point as to why Holy Spirit moved brother SermonIndex to post this thread (as with many of the other threads He moves bro Greg to post) ...

Come on saints any of us who know the words of the old hymns know that the majority of this newer so called Christian music don't hold a candle to the devotion contained to God, His will, and way like the old standards ...

There once was a time when Christians could say of some secular/worldly music that it sounded like Christian or Gospel music - Now we find ourselves saying that Christian/Gospel music sounds like secular/worldly music ... My being American/African, modern Am/Af gospel music is a subject that i believe our Lord used me to address for much of our new Gospel music is just downright (designed for worldly commercial crossover) deplorable;

A Message to Black America and the Black Church
Gangsta Rap – God’s Final Straw
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=2826&forum=35&9

To be blatantly honest i've come to really believe that our advesary has pretty much blinded us to any point(s) of His pleading us our need to repent of, to turn around and move away from ... It seems that
instead of taking His point(s) seriously that we'd much rather make fun of an alternate point, or find some other escape rather than just bear the brunt of His point(s) and stop our foolishness ... My prayer life has much increased in alarm to the degree of spiritual deafness and blindness that so many of us display whenever He touches on how much wordliness we carry ... He's trying to get His point(s) across to us, and we're blind and deaf to them ... Jesus help us!

Lord Jesus please stop our adversary's blinding uf us ... It seems anything other than just plain taking Your point(s) and repenting of them ... For Your sake, for the sake of we Your Body, and especially for the sake of a lost and dying world who view us as a joke rather than Your shining city on a hill ... To Your glory: MAKE US ALL GET YOUR POINT(S)! ... Amen

 2006/8/7 13:04Profile
JoeA
Member



Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 364
Decatur, Illinois

 Re:

Quote:
Not trying to be inflammatory here... but... who cares what the Pope has to say about anything?



If the pope is concerned about worldly music in the Catholic church, then shouldn't Protestants definately be concerned? On any given day i'll state why i think the Catholic church is not Christian, but if the pope is worried about worldliness, that means we should be waking up too. I just wish some Protestant leaders would rise up and say the same.

And hmmhmm, i totally agree with what you said.


_________________
Joe Auvil

 2006/8/7 13:07Profile









 Re:

I didnt say one way or the other about music, or worldiness in the church. Those have been serious issues facing Bible believing churches for a long time... I'm just wondering why when the Pope addresses it we're all of a sudden going to pay attention. Nothing in this world could cause me to care any less what the Pope has to say about any topic.

I'm concerned about worldiness in the church as anyone who has been on this forum for any length of time knows.

So the Pope is concerned about worldliness... big deal. So are the nutty Islamic extremeists about their religion. So are the Mormons. So are the JW's.

I'm really not trying to cause any contention here. Just surprised that many of us here have been sounding the trumpet for a long time about compromise and worldliness among God's people. It's a bit disconcerting when [b]we[/b] get dismissed and sometimes chastised by other Christians on this forum for speaking out against it... but when the leader of the world's largest false religion brings it up people have more respect for him than they do their fellow believers.

Krispy

Krispy

 2006/8/7 15:07
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: What's with this!

Is anybody not concerned that a mere man on the other side of the pond should have such a degree of control over the local church?!!!

For several years my sister, a musician had been using the Catholic Church in her community to host classical chamber concerts. It is an ideal sanctuary for such events. But then the church received orders from above that this would not be allowed anymore – as the building was to be used only for “worship”. Of course the church board did not like that order, as they had enjoyed a good community relationship with my sister and others. However, they felt obligated to obey the mandate.

This is preposterous! - not only that the Pope takes that degree of control over the local churches, but also that the local churches keeps on submitting – even against their will.

This makes me angry, as it grieves our Lord so much. It’s like the heirarchy refusing to let their children ever grow up, and the lowerarchy refusing to grow up. (and risk persecution and excommunication)
Diane


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Diane

 2006/8/7 15:50Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: The Pope Calls for an End to Popular Music in Church


Hmmmm ... maybe i'm not getting the point here ... The beginning of bro Greg's post says;

"In what may be the most visible — or audible — instance of the present-day Catholic hierarchy's retreat from the reforms of the 1960s and '70s, Pope Benedict XVI has called for an end to popular music in churches, suggesting that traditional chant and sacred polyphony are the suitable accompaniment to worship."

See i'm thinking the point of the thread is about the Catholic Church's "repentance", "turn around", from attempting to be relevant to our modern world by allowing this popular influenced music in the first place, and not whether the RCC or the pope is right in anything else, or that it was posted as a personal affront, or in superceedance to anything that any of us have already been trumpeting against in the Body ... i'm thinking that the main point of the thread being posted is that if the pope/RC can see where it was a mistake to "compromise" in music, then why can't we as the Body of Christ see where we've made similar compromise ...

i know bro Greg to be one of few words, unlike many of us who will beat our point(s) to exhaustion (yep i'm guilty), but to me bro Greg's point(s) often seem to be toward pointing to the Body's errors, the need for the Body's serious repentance from our errors, and much needed REVIVAL toward the Body getting on with the King's business in replacement of our own ...

Ya know as of late i've gotten real butterflies in my gut for we the Body of Christ especially here in America ... Not that the gates of hell will prevail against us, but a real sense of dread of just what it's gonna take for our Lord to shake us out of our stupor to our acknowledging His point(s) ... :-(

 2006/8/7 17:13Profile









 Re: Sister Dorcas

you're speaking wisdom here:

Quote:
Those two facts would matter less, if it were not that this particular Pope, with his conservatism, sounds just like an evangalical on many issues.



and

Quote:
To those who don't know the difference, they perceive a unification of thinking between Catholic and Protestant




that's good stuff....you know, when I see posters on this forum "speaking out against" the "world's greatest false religion", it just makes me grieve, because God gave us this ministry of reconciliation. That said, am I going to engage in popery or the idolatrous practices of the roman church?

no.

But one of my employees, is a God fearing born again follower of Jesus, and we were sitting around talking about the Word, this and that, and I ask him where he goes to church, and he tells me, "Saint so and so catholic church".

Now what happens if I "speak out" and tell him he's in a "false religion"? I could stumble a brother, lose a brother.

He must of sensed my heart, because he told me, he's a Christian catholic, he loves Jesus, maybe the Lord has him in this particular parish to be a witness. Only God knows.

Good words sister, your brother bartle

 2006/8/7 17:52
K_DAY
Member



Joined: 2006/7/28
Posts: 144
Ann Arbor, MI

 Re:

Quote:
Now what happens if I "speak out" and tell him he's in a "false religion"? I could stumble a brother, lose a brother.



Quote:
He must of sensed my heart, because he told me, he's a Christian catholic, he loves Jesus, maybe the Lord has him in this particular parish to be a witness. Only God knows



Yes, bartle, I have a number of similar experiences. I know a number of Catholics who worship God with an amazing amount of love and devotion.

The balance for me is difficult. I will not compromise God's truth, but standing up against such a great deception with the same boldness as bro Ravenhill and others is much more difficult when these people are your friends whom who know love God.

So, how does it make sense? Do these Christian Catholics not completely understand the implications of their doctrine? Do they unknowingly in their hearts ascribe solely to God's grace for their salvation?

Sorry if I am getting off topic. I am the new guy on the block, so that is my excuse ;-).

-K DAY

 2006/8/7 18:24Profile





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