Poster | Thread | TaKa Member
Joined: 2003/4/17 Posts: 124 Louisiana
| Water Baptism | | Luk 7:50 But Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you. Go in peace."
Jesus did not tell this woman she had to be baptised. She was saved by believing in Him.
Rom 10:9 If you declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
This verse also speaks of believing, but not about baptism.
Romans 5:9 says that we have been justified by His blood. It says nothing about baptism.
I heard a preacher one time say that if you baptise a sinner, all you have then is a wet sinner. It is the blood of Jesus that washes away our sins, not water baptism.
For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed...but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. (I Peter 1:18-19)
Baptism signifies our death to the old way of life and our resurrection to new life in Christ, as Paul uses it in Romans 6:1-4. Unless we have died to sin, and been raised with Christ in reality prior to our baptism, the symbol becomes meaningless.
we are justified by God's grace (Titus 3:7), justified by the blood of Christ (Romans 5:9)
By teaching baptismal regeneration, people do despiteto the sovereignty of God and the finished work of Christ. And this is a serious offense to God!
_________________ Troy
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| 2003/7/10 3:17 | Profile | Herdman Member
Joined: 2003/7/25 Posts: 15
| Re: Water Baptism | | There are many denominations that teach you that water baptism is essential for salvation. As a result, they baptize babies or they make water baptism a condition for salvation when you are older. Of course, they use the scriptures to prove their doctrine. Almost all heresies are proved by the Bible.
The key verse for this doctrine, called "baptismal regeneration," is Acts 2:38. Acts 2:38 is the baptism preached by Peter to the Jews who were responsible for Jesus crucifixion. Up until Peter pointed out to them that the resurrected Jesus was the same one that they had crucified, they werent concerned about having killed him.
But since Jesus was going to make his foes his footstool, these guys were in serious trouble (Acts 2:35-36). And when they found out, they asked, "What shall we do?" They did not ask what to do to be saved. They wanted to know what to do about their hearts being pricked over crucifying a now risen Savior!!
First, they had to repent of what they had done.
Second, they had to be baptized in the name of Jesus, for Jesus had already forgiven them of this sin (Lk. 23:34). This is what "for the remission of sins" is about ("for" meaning "because of," like jump "for" joy; not "for" meaning "in order to get").
Third, following their baptism, they received the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Now if this were the way for everyone to get saved, we would certainly find evidence of it in other places in the Bible. Alas, this is the only place where we find anything like "baptismal regeneration." In fact, we find something totally opposite in Acts 10, where the first gentile converts were.
In Acts 10:44, the Holy Ghost fell on them and then they were baptized in water. They did not have to be baptized in water like Acts 2:38 to get the Holy Ghost. Peter even said that God gave these gentiles "the like gift as he did unto us," (Acts 11:17). And the whole episode reminded Peter that there is a very distinct difference between water baptism and baptism with the Holy Ghost (Acts 11:16). Water baptism cant save but Spirit baptism does (1 Cor 12:13; Eph. 4:5).
How about Mark 16:16, where they only quote half of the verse? They are quick to quote "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved." But they are ready to run to another verse the moment you point out that they have left off the last half of the verse. The last half of Mark 16:16 says, "but he that believeth not shall be damned."
The condition for salvation is not water baptism, then, but rather belief. If you dont believe, you will be damned (Jn. 3:18, 36). If you do believe, you are already saved (Jn. 3:18, 36). And those who are saved are commanded to be baptized in water after they get saved, like Acts 10:48 and Acts 8:36-38. Belief first, then water baptism.
Another favorite with those who teach that you must be baptized in water to be saved is 1 Pet. 3:21. They like to chop off parts of this verse, as well. They quote, "baptism doth also now save us." Well, theres a lot more in this verse than that!! For one thing the first part of the verse says, "The like FIGURE whereunto even baptism
" Peter tells you its a FIGURE.
Furthermore, according to the context, the ones who went under (Noahs flood, v. 20) all drowned and perished. The ones who floated are the ones who were saved. So, if you followed their reasoning, the proper method of baptism would be to float around in the baptistery for a while, a long while!!
Water baptism cant put away the filth of the flesh, according to 1 Pet. 3:21. The only thing, in the context, that can put that away and save us is "the resurrection of Jesus Christ." Thats precisely what Paul said in 1 Cor. 15:13-29. So, water baptism is the "answer of a good conscience toward God," once you are saved.
Ready for another one? Okay, lets go to Jn. 3:5-6. Here they say that to be born of water is water baptism. But thats not what Jesus said. Jesus said, right in the context, that to be "born of water," (v.5) is to be "born of the flesh," (v.6). He interpreted this for you. So, when a woman prepares to deliver a baby, her "baptism" breaks, right? Of course not! Her "water" breaks. Do you get it? The flesh birth is a water birth.
One more time, lets go to Rom. 6:3-6. Rom. 6:3-6 is a description of the baptism with the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12:13). This is the process whereby the Holy Spirit so literally makes you a part of the body of Christ (Eph. 5:30-32) that you are actually "baptized into HIS death." You are "buried WITH him." And you "shall be also in the likeness of HIS resurrection."
The baptism of Rom. 6:3-6 is something that no baptistery in the world can do for you. That is something that only the Holy Spirit can do for you, "for BY ONE SPIRIT are we all baptized into one body." You might be interested to know that not only does the word water not appear in Rom. 6, it does not appear anywhere in the entire Book of Romans. So, why would anyone think they could find "water" baptism in there? They could only if they were desperately looking to prove a heresy!!
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| 2003/7/25 23:46 | Profile | crsschk Member
Joined: 2003/6/11 Posts: 9192 Santa Clara, CA
| Re: Water Baptism | | Quote:
I heard a preacher one time say that if you baptise a sinner, all you have then is a wet sinner.
Like that! Since I was raised as a Catholic, I had the 'baby splash' which is fine for maybe dedicating to the Lord, but as far as the doctrine they hold to..... My pastor put the question to a friend of his who happened to be a Catholic priest about why they had to under go 'full immersion' as priest's but didn't require the same of their congregation and he really didn't have a good answer....I know that's an aside from this particular topic and am in total agreement here with these posts. For myself, after 5 years of being a Christian and putting off Baptisim because of the particular church I had been attending (WOF-ish), it was something that I felt I should do, just because of the very reasons stated here... A couple of months back, I was finaly Baptised and it was a glorious day! I was beaming, couldn't wipe the smile off my face....have heard it put this way: " The outward sign of an inward change"...or something to that effect. _________________ Mike Balog
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| 2003/7/26 11:34 | Profile | Zapthycat Member
Joined: 2003/8/5 Posts: 75 Livermore, CA
| Re: | | Herdman:
If you are really interested in taking the easy route by discounting the biblical important of baptism, by all means that is your perogative. I, however, am not taking any chances with my soul. Hell is too hot and Heaven too wonderful. I am going to "Work out my own salvation with fear and trembling". The way they did it in the bible is the only way for me. This includes not only baptism, not just repentance, not just confessing my sins before God, not just the holy ghost, not just good works, but everything possible I can do.
I will not take a "shortcut" with my soul, or any chances to go do hell. You quoted many scriptures in your note, but you left many out, and misinterpreted a couple. No biggie, the only main arguement I will say is "if they did it in the bible, why are you so quick to discount it as not nessecary for your salvation"? And not only that, but teaching others that this is so?
I cringe when I think that I may be teaching others a "quick and easy" salvation that may not get them saved when they think they are....
_________________ J. Wilson
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| 2003/8/7 11:46 | Profile |
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