| Poster | Thread |
| | Re: Can someone please define revival for me? | | Dear Derek,
First, I don't think we're digressing from the original topic, in that there seems to be an extremely elastic definition of 'Christian' already set in people's minds. I am broadly in agreement with Compton's points - that many call themselves Christians who have [i][b]never[/i][/b] made the transactions with God which should entitle them to that name and that description.
Here is what I said, again.
Quote:
'in which Christians repent of their sins...' struck me as an oxymoron - [b]not that Christians should not repent of their sins[/b] -
My point is not that a Christian has no more need of repentance, but that a Christian should not [b]be[/b] deadened and immobilised by his [b][i]unconsciousness[/i][/b] of sin, and should [i][b]not[/b][/i] be unaware of those sins for which he should seek forgiveness as soon as possible.
His understanding of what has happened to the sin(s) he had before he came to Christ, should have radically changed his ability to overcome sin, and to live free from at least some previous sins. This in keeping with new birth.
I am suggesting that there should be a very big difference between the way real Christians look at sin, and they should not be in the situation your first quote attributes to [b][i]'Christians'[/b][/i]: An evangelical revival is an extraordinary work of God in which Christians repent of their sins as they become intensely aware of His presence in their midst...'
Maybe I'm trying to say that church attenders who try very hard to do what they believe God requires of them, may never have been freed from sin, delivered from bondage or filled with the Holy Spirit. If 'revival' is the first time they experience these things, then they were not 'revived'.... they were born again.... and if they were born again for the first time, then they were not fulfilling a biblical definition of 'Christian' prior to that moment. Am I making better sense here?
I see that there is a great reticence within the church community to think in these terms, but preachers like Spurgeon and Horatius Bonar were never deceived, and preached unashamedly to the unsaved within their congregations, never letting them off the hook, and certainly never deceiving them with the thought that really all they needed was '[u]re[/u]vival'. I think it is this ruthless honesty from the pulpit around which your authors might be pussyfooting, and all the more likely this is to be, if there are unsaved men 'pastoring' congregations.
Is my earlier meaning (with regard to Isaiah) and 'revival', a bit clearer now? |
|  2006/7/23 14:01 | | DerekSpalla
Member
Joined: 2006/7/6
Posts: 22
Powder Springs, Georgia
| | Re: | | Dear Dorcas,
I have a much better understanding now. Thank you for your reply.
Maybe we should start a thread to define "Christian". My definition would be a person who wants to be like Christ, more than just a follower, but in every way is striving or contending to be like Him.
It is not that I have yet arrived at being Christlike, but I am on my way. I am being made more into His likeness. I am in a different place and can walk only in the light that I have at the moment.
I do not want to be quick to judge fellow Christians, because I know that I had some of the same thoughts, struggles or lifestyle. By the grace and mercy of God I walk out my Christlikeness in greater light.
Regarding Isaiah, I feel like he had a personal encounter with God, which is what revival really is, right? It seems to me that he repented before God...and clearly he was made clean before God as the angel told him. I thought it was an interesting point, here is a man that God was going to bring to heaven and call as a prophet. Yet Isaiah didn't have to have it "all together" before God encountered him, but that it was through the encounter that God revealed Isaiah's unclean state and he was unclean while in the presence of God. My thought was that in revival, we encounter God and as part of the encounter God reveals places in my being that need to be repented of and cleansed.
Kind Regards,
Derek
_________________
Derek Spalla
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| | 2006/7/23 14:39 | Profile | letsgetbusy
Member
Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia
| | Re: | | derek,
I grew up in Powder Springs. Drop me a pm.
Revival is the sudden, supernatural, selective movement of God on a community. It produces prostration, purity, and descends amid prayer. Any revival that has occured without Christians waiting upod God in brokenness is not a genuine movement of the Holy Spirit.
Now personal revival can occur when one waits in brokenness and prayer him or herself. I agree with Martin-Lloyd Jones that personal revival is simply the same event as the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And when a group of people are baptized in the Holy Spirit, this is a revival.
SUDDEN - this meaning that there is a definate moment when one is aware that the presence of Almighty God is in the midst. Not just a spiritual experience, but a realization that the occurance at hand is one of 'brokenness.' In other words, there is a recognizable "break" that God has come.
SUPERNATURAL - this meaning that the movement of God in revival is not a smooth, polished meeting that feeds the listener, or empowers one to overcome a particular sin in mind, but rather an invasion of God in the meeting. There is weeping, men and women, saved and unsaved, cry out to God in mercy. Some often go unconcious. Some revival experience noises like an oncoming train.
SELECTIVE - this meaning that God does not send revival to a people that don't want revival. A church will not see a revival that is not waiting for God in prayer. I have heard of one account of a Roman Catholic church receiving the blessing, but 99% of the documented revivals occur to Protestant, evangelical Christians. So it does not come as a recognition or seal that a church is good, but it is rather Gods' seal on a church that recognizes their own evil in the sight of God (I am a man of unclean lips, among a people of unclean lips).
PROSTRATION - this meaning that during revival God puts people on their face, spiritually, and most often physically. There is a great humbling, and recognizing of the power and magnificance of God. It is verses like that of Isaiah and John from Revelation becoming real. 'I saw the Lord seated upon His throne, I fell on my face as if dead,' etc.
PURITY - this meaning that the movement does not stay within the walls of the church, but effects the morale climate of a large geographic area. Sinners are shown their sins while walking down the road, bars are closed never to be opened again. 'Good people' of the church confess sins that they have been hiding for years.
PRAYER - this meaning that the Holy Spirit only honors those who are waiting upon the Lord in prayer, and the genuine seal of true revival, is that the prayer not only occurs before the 'break', but during, and after the movement has begun. "They continued stedfastly in the Apostle's doctrine...and in prayers."
Now I will agree that you can know all the facts, but until YOU and I decide we are sick of our own condition, and the condition of our congregation, and lay on our face, waiting upon the Lord, and quit waiting for others we know to pull their weight and usher in revival, we will not see it.
I agree with Finney that revival is a right use of constituted means. The most concise Scripture on this being 2 Chr 7:14:
"If my people which are called by my name, will humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from our wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven, and forgive their sin, and heal their land."
_________________
Hal Bachman
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| | 2006/7/24 17:32 | Profile |
| | Re: Can someone define revival for me? | | Bro iamhis
Quote:
waiting upon the Lord, and quit waiting for others
I think you have it here!
It seems God does move on whole communities at the same time, but unless there is individual apprehension of Him and what He requires of one's soul, I think it's possible to be deeply [b]unchanged[/b]* by the experience of rubbing shoulders with those who are (changed).
We have plenty of this* around in churches today and it would be unwise to imagine that there aren't real living Christians (the wheat) growing up into Christ, right along beside the tares, who are destined for the oven.
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| | 2006/7/25 7:12 | | DerekSpalla
Member
Joined: 2006/7/6
Posts: 22
Powder Springs, Georgia
| | Re: Nicely defined! | | Quote:
Revival is the sudden, supernatural, selective movement of God on a community. It produces prostration, purity, and descends amid prayer. Any revival that has occured without Christians waiting upod God in brokenness is not a genuine movement of the Holy Spirit.
Dear Hal,
I love your definition and the word support you provided. I also agree that the 2 Chronicles 7:14 is one of the best scriptural definitions of revival that we have.
Kind Regards,
Derek
_________________
Derek Spalla
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| | 2006/7/25 10:39 | Profile | letsgetbusy
Member
Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia
| | Re: | | My definition came almost exclusively from Ken Connolly's video: 'Heal Our Land.' It can be downloaded from this site.
_________________
Hal Bachman
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| | 2006/7/25 18:52 | Profile |
| | Re: Can someone define revival for me? | |
Hi Derek and letsgetbusy,
Spot the difference?
Quote:
Revival is the sudden, supernatural, selective movement of God on a person. It produces prostration, purity, and descends amid prayer. Any revival that has occured without waiting upon God in brokenness is not a genuine movement of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 9
Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice ... And he said, "Who are You, Lord?" Then the Lord said, "I am Jesus, ... So he, trembling and astonished, said, "Lord, what do You want me to do?" Then the Lord said to him, "Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do." ... Then Saul arose from the ground, and when his eyes were opened he saw no one. But they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus. And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank... one called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying... "..in a vision he has seen a man named Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him, so that he might receive his sight." ... the Lord said to [Ananias], "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name's sake." And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit."
Was this a 'revival', then? |
| | 2006/7/26 9:16 | | Tears_of_joy
Member
Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554
| | Re: Can someone define revival for me? | | Can someone define revival for me?
I like what was said in the other thread - [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=11426&forum=36]Is knoweledge of revival choking us?[/url]
To quote Leonard Ravenhill, "The world isn't waiting for a new DEFINITION of Christianity. The world is waiting for a ne DEMONSTRATION of Christianity." Perhaps we can adapt this slightly, "The CHURCH isn't waiting for a new DEFINITION of REVIVAL. The CHURCH is waiting for a new DEMONSTRATION of REVIVAL." Let's stop splitting hairs over what it is, and what it isn't. |
| | 2006/7/27 8:13 | Profile |
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