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 Fighting on the victory side

I couldn't help but write about this because I feel it is such a huge issue at the moment with too many people.

I feel that with all the false prophets and stories about people thinking they are saved, failing to realise that they are not and then ending up in hell, I feel that many true Christians are now doubting their own conversions.

Having been through something similar myself only a short while back, I feel the need to encourage my brothers and sisters with two bits of Scripture.


The first is Romans 10:9 - 'That if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.'
Stop and think for a moment. Do you say Jesus is Lord? Do you truly believe that Jesus Christ was raised from the dead? If so, then you are saved.

The second is Romans 10:13 - 'Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.'
If you have called out to God in all of your problems and suffering, then it says in Scripture that you are saved. It says it in black and white. Believe it. Don't let the devil tell you otherwise; if you truly cried out to God then you are saved.


We live in a day and age where Satan rules. He has instilled fear into too many believer's hearts that they may yet go to hell. Brothers and sisters, do not give in to him. Read and re-read the two above bits of Scripture and think about them.

God will never ever tell you something that is opposite to what scripture says, so if you have truly done the above in Romans, and someone in your head tells you that you are headed for Hell, then ignore it because it is Satan.

I would also like to adress somebody that mentioned something in another post which I was offended by, (I forget their name). He/she said that they accepted the Bible with its mistakes. Dear believer, the Bible is God's own Word! God is perfect, God is not human, which means He cannot, CANNOT make any mistakes. To say that the Bible has mistakes in it is to question God's perfection.

The Bible tells us that God has not given us a spirit of fear. So do not let the devil bring you down. Ignore his doubts. Beat him down with Scripture. My friends, on our own, yes we are weak. On our own we have already been beaten. But, are you alone? No. God is with you. We may be weak, but God is strong. The same God that flung the stars into space and knows them all by name, who created the heavens and the eath, of which they flee from his presence, the perfect, holy, omnipotent God is with you.

Remember that. God is on your side. He has already won. It is time to fight the battle, to stand up to Satan with God's strength and drive him out. It is time to get down on our knees with weeping and crying, to pray and pray and pray for our countries, many of which are heading to hell quicker than you can imagine. It is time to pray for a revival in our countries, to show the devil the keys which Jesus has; the keys to hell. Any believer will not be thrown into hell by Jesus. Jesus is God. Jesus is perfect. He cannot make mistake. He cannot forget. If you are a follower of Jesus Christ then dear friend, he will not throw you into hell by mistake.

Almighty God, stir up men and women of prayer, Stir up men to teach the Word as You mean it. Let us not water it down. Let us tell the Truth. Let us drive Satan out of our countries with your strength. Let us unashamedly tell the lost that Jesus Christ loves them, that Jesus Christ died for them, that Jesus Christ has the power. Let us not point man to man, but man to God.
Let us not grow in likeness to this world, but in likeness to Christ! Stir us up, set our hearts on fire to tell others about the coming Judgement. Let us tell others that Your grace and mercy can save them, can forgive them, and can strengthen them. Lord God may we not care what men say to us, let us not care if we are beaten, stripped, spat on, cursed and thrown out by people because of what we believe, and know to be true. Lord God Almighty, stamp Yourself on our eyeballs, put eternity in our hearts.
May we not listen to the world, telling us to live for money, fame, sex, power and friends. May we listen to you, may we remember that this life is but a speck when placed next to eternity. May we long to be called home, and may we long to point others to You so that they may see the light, repent and be saved.

Lord God bring revival, revival in our own hearts, in our Churches, in our countries.

Amen.

 2006/7/5 4:50
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2680
Nottingham, England

 Re: Fighting on the victory side

This is a good thread, but there is something I would like to point out. Scripture does indeed say that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. And also that to confess with your mouth and to believe, concerning Jesus, we will be saved. However, that confession, I believe, means confession and repentance of sins.
If the individual is unrepentant, they cannot be saved. As they see it, what is there to repent of? Jesus says in Luke 13v3,5, ...but unless you repent you will likewise perish.
Still, it is a good thread. Keep up the good work for the Lord. God bless.

 2006/7/5 5:34Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4994
Sweden

 Re:

yes this is true...but i see alot of this that many do confess whit their mouth..but as i see in the bible..if jesus is your lord... you DO IN ACTION as he says... many just confess christ as SAVIOR... a FORGIVER... a new improved lifestyle...

The first is Romans 10:9 - 'That if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord...

jesus is lord in my life.. lord of my money lord of my time lord of my will lord of my mouth, lord in my home jesus is my LORD....

if thats the case then i belive we are on the way to salvation... i think a great sermon on false teachings and false conversions is this one... just heard it today and its so awesome...
it shows us the truth

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=12827



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CHRISTIAN

 2006/7/5 6:39Profile









 Re: Fighting on the vicotry side

richardf said

Quote:
If you are a follower of Jesus Christ then dear friend, he will not throw you into hell [b]by mistake[/b].

In its context, this sentence makes perfect sense, and is wholly inspired. The idea that Jesus might make a mistake may wear away at our assurance, because it is very easy to attribute to God, our own weakenesses and failings.

However, it is also true that if Jesus throws you into hell, it will [i]not[/i] be a mistake - in that He spoke so often of the possibility of this end for people, that we must take it very seriously indeed, and [i][b]make[/i][/b] our calling and election [u][b]sure[/u][/b].

 2006/7/5 7:50
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Fighting on the victory side

[i]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.[/i] Joh 15:4-10

Take note of the "[b]If[/b]'s"


_________________
Mike Balog

 2006/7/5 8:18Profile









 Re:

I agree with everything said.

As posted recently in the thread, 'How important is a born again date?' I totally understand what everyone has said thus far.

But I know for a fact that there a many true believers that are caught in Satan's grip when they should not be. On the other hand, there are many false believers that think they are saved. We need to preach the truth, and not water it down.

We need to warn people not to sit back and relax once they have asked Jesus Christ into their lives. Jesus talks a lot in Matthew 7 about narrow and wide gates, good and bad trees, wise and foolish men. Without Christ there is no salvation.

 2006/7/11 13:13
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
That if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.'



In the context of North American Christianity, circa 2006 I feel this scripture needs much systematic comparison with the entire counsel of the bible. My concern over a wrong use of this scripture does not come from an antagonistic background theologically speaking. I grew up Calvinist and thoroughly Southern Baptist...two segments of the church that would readily agree with any attempts to confirm "sola Christa", "sola scriptura", and "sola fide" in the heart of the Born Again Christian.

However, we live in an age where many Christians are not born again. This may seem like an oxymoron...certainly according to the bible it is. Yet, I have had to come to this dreadful conclusion, even as a hostile witness resisting this sad observation.

We need to ask ourselves, when we "say" Jesus is Lord, can we really say such a thing? If I say I am a republican, but I vote democratic...then what good is my profession? My premise is that Paul was saying, "If you can indeed confess that Jesus is Lord, because he is in fact Lord, then you are saved."

Compare just a few scriptures, not only by the precise meaning of words but also by the plain thrust of the whole passage. There is little in here that will give us a sense of the legal superficial, transcendental unlived righteousness of American Christianity.

But know this, that in the last days, grievous times will come.... traitors, headstrong, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God;...holding a form of godliness, but having denied the power thereof. Turn away from these, also...For of these are those who creep into houses, and take captive gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts...always learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth....But they will proceed no further. For their folly will be evident to all men, as theirs also came to be....But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

RC Sproul, a reformed theologian that I am quite fond of says in his book Getting the Gospel Right, “We deny that we are justified by the righteousness of Christ infused into us or by any righteousness that is thought to inhere with us.” Many of us who claim allegiance to the reformed traditions may shout amen, with a desire to express humility and gratefulness for the matchless gift of Christ's atonement. Statement’s like Sproul's are calculated to avoid a legalistic approach to salvation yet because it is preoccupied with legal questions of justification by faith, such forensic grace teachings are ultimately legalistic themselves. (That is to say, they are organized along concerns of the law and not concerned with finding a people that are preoccupied with loving God and his ways.)

This concern is not against evangelical theology of imputed righteousness, but that we have long lost the substance of the great evangelists understanding of this righteousness and it's effect on men. Wesely, Edwards, and Whitefield may have disagreed on many things, but not on the need for the New Birth. Today Calvinism represents “cheap grace” but this was not the case in Whitefield’s, Edwards, or Spurgeons day! (Edwards was emphatic “Only those that are holy are in the way to heaven. Many are not sensible enough of the necessity of holiness to salvation. Everyone hopes for heaven…")Likewise modern Arminisim seems to achieve little more then busy altars, where people cry tears of repentence but still walk away with defeated lives.(Ravenhill once said something like " We've Romanized our altars...making them a sacrament." So in our day, we have plenty of security through legal justification doctrines…this abstraction is so abundant that our churches our filled with Christians wanting more substance like Western equivilants of Buddhists seeking to become closer to God through means such as conscious altering worship services, mystical contemplation, and social activism.

Quote:
Stop and think for a moment. Do you say Jesus is Lord? Do you truly believe that Jesus Christ was raised from the dead? If so, then you are saved.



Brother I feel a challenge with this point is in order because it is offered so frequently out of context…although I certainly empathize with your compassion in offering a biblical comfort. Certainly you would agree that not all who say "Lord, Lord" are known by the Lord! Our fears will never be put down by reading texts alone because these texts point not to themselves alone but to a Pentecost encounter, where the living Holy Spirit moves upon a sin weary soul in the fire and light of reality…which is more then theory or mechanics of doctrine. Spiritless Christianity is the problem and comforting someone with reference to bible texts is not the solution.

As a comfort to our souls, we are told to expect the personal confirmation via the Holy Spirit within us that we are indeed Sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God...
It is not healthy for us to be too quick to talk a frightened soul out of their fears…they may not be that far from the Kingdom of God! The power of the Gospel is more then a blessed psychological comfort of justification to burdened sinners, but it awakens a faith that recieves the power of God, redeeming sinners into Godly people.

Consider the faithful testimony of John Bunyan in Pilgrims Progress. Pilgrim and Pliable both set out and soon fell in the swamp of despondency. In our modern age, the mere setting out would qualify for salvation, but soon Pliable turned back. Also note that it wasn’t till later that Pilgrim lost the burden of sin from His back, after a near fatal encounter with Worldy Wisdom that almost beguiled him out of his burden. Not all who mean to embrace the Christian creed are born again, not all are New Creatures! This deliverance from death is not something that is arrived at through reformed theology but a reformed heart that will manifest iteself in character. We can insist on justification all our lives, but I believe without insisting on the promise of the New Birth, our churches will never see revival even if they hold revival meetings for a thousand years.

Here is Jonathan Edwards preaching to his congregation on real security. Notice how the faithful preacher offers the tormented soul no comfort through justification theory, but insists on a living encounter with God’s saving power.
Thus are all you that have never passed under a great change of heart, but the mighty power of the Spirit of God upon your souls: all that were never born again and made new creatures, and raised from being dead in sin to a state of new, and before altogether unexperienced light and life (however you may have reformed your life in many things, and may have had religious affections, and may keep up a form of religion in your families, and closets, and in the house of God, and may be strict in it.) You are thus in the hands of an angry God; tis nothing but his mere pleasure that keeps you from this moment from being swallowed up in everlasting destruction.

MC


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Mike Compton

 2006/7/11 16:26Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: Can we really know ourselves?

Quote:
God will never ever tell you something that is opposite to what scripture says, so i f you have truly done the above in Romans, and someone in your head tells you that you are headed for Hell, then ignore it because it is Satan



Careful now! Here you are pointing to something in the past to validate one’s present position with God. The doubts may very well come from God and NOT Satan.
Quote:
but i see alot of this that many do confess whit their mouth..but



Our ability to be deceived about ourselves is beyond what we could imagine. We can indeed believe we have gone through all the right “hoops”. I did! I was one of the best Christians around – both by what I did in the past and what I was doing. What was missing was GOD’S part in the process - and that was according to God’s perfect timing and work in my life.

We simply are not good at self-evaluation – we will always believe what we want to believe or what others tell us. We have no idea what hidden sins, wrong thinking, idols, unbelief, etc lurk in our unconscious. Only God knows, and he brings it to light. That is often what we want to deny, as the exposure is very unpleasant.

Sometimes our desire for eternal assurance is greater than our desire to be conformed to Christ and obey him in faith. Perhaps rather than asking God, “Am I saved?” we should ask, “Lord, will you show me where I am not conformed to your image?”
Diane


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Diane

 2006/7/11 16:32Profile









 Re:

Well put roadsign, I see what you mean.

The quote you took there I do take back! I believe that was back in my first post? I think that since then, I have realised exactly what you said, that you cannot be sure of your salvation because of a point in the past.

If that was so, then you could pray 'the prayer,' go and keep living sinfully and of the world, and still believe that you are going to heaven.

My apologies

 2006/7/12 4:42
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: Keep thinking

Richard, There is no need to apologize. We are not here to present a polished product. You have been thinking and that is important – even if it means going through some rough edges. Our collective misunderstandings about salvation didn’t just pop up overnight, and won’t go a way overnight. It takes a lot of wrestling with God, each other, and ourselves to get back to right thinking.

There have been a lot of threads on this topic, and that is a good thing. Hopefully we’re clearing the weeds and getting closer to the pure truth.

Keep thinking and keep wrestling.

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/7/12 7:22Profile





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