| Re: Smokey|
here is the what we believe from sadddleback church of rick warrens. Before this thread I knew very little or cared very little about rick warren, except that he wrote a book called the purpose driven church.
what follows is the "what we believe" from saddleback church, it sounds like pretty much boilerplate what we believe. If this is what he brings to the North Koreans, that will be good:
God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God.
Genesis 1:1,26,27; 3:22; Psalm 90:2; Matthew 28:19; 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Corinthians 13:14
Man is made in the spiritual image of God, to be like Him in character. He is the supreme object of God´s creation. Although man has tremendous potential for good, he is marred by an attitude of disobedience toward God called "sin". This attitude separates man from God.
Genesis 1:27; Psalm 8:3-6; Isaiah 53:6a; Romans 3:23; Isaiah 59:1,2
Man was created to exist forever. He will either exist eternally separated from God by sin, or in union with God through forgiveness and salvation. To be eternally separated from God is Hell. To be eternally in union with Him is eternal life. Heaven and Hell are places of eternal existence.
John 3:16; John 2:25; John 5:11-13; Romans 6:23; Revelation 20:15; 1 John 5:11-12; Matthew 25:31-46
ABOUT JESUS CHRIST
Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is co-equal with the Father. Jesus lived a sinless human life and offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all men by dying on a cross. He arose from the dead after three days to demonstrate His power over sin and death. He ascended to Heaven´s glory and will return again to earth to reign as King of kings, and Lord of lords.
Matthew 1:22,23; Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1-5, 14:10-30; Hebrews 4:14,15; 1 Corinthians 15:3,4; Romans 1:3,4; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Timothy 6:14,15; Titus 2:13
Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by self-improvement or good works. Only by trusting in Jesus Christ as God´s offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sin´s penalty. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith.
Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8,9; John 14:6, 1:12; Titus 3:5; Galatians 3:26; Romans 5:1
ABOUT ETERNAL SECURITY
Because God gives man eternal life through Jesus Christ, the believer is secure in salvation for eternity. Salvation is maintained by the grace and power of God, not by the self-effort of the Christian. It is the grace and keeping power of God that gives this security.
John 10:29; 2 Timothy 1:12; Hebrews 7:25; 10:10,14; 1 Peter 1:3-5
ABOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT
The Holy Spirit is equal with the Father and the Son as God. He is present in the world to make men aware of their need for Jesus Christ. He also lives in every Christian from the moment of salvation. He provides the Christian with power for living, understanding of spiritual truth, and guidance in doing what is right. The Christian seeks to live under His control daily.
2 Corinthians 3:17; John 16:7-13, 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; 1 Corinthians 2:12, 3:16; Ephesians 1:13; Galatians 5:25; Ephesians 5:1
ABOUT THE BIBLE
The Bible is God´s word to all men. It was written by human authors, under the supernatural guidance of the Holy Spirit. It is the supreme source of truth for Christian beliefs and living. Because it is inspired by God, it is truth without any mixture of error.
2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20,21; 2 Timothy 1:13; Psalm 119:105,160, 12:6; Proverbs 30:5)
please don't bother to point by point attempt to argue with me over this statement from saddleback as I will ignore you.
and let me make a suggestion to you, get on your knees and ask God the question you asked me on this forum:
barytle PLEASE explaine why God would go to the extrordinary lengths that He did to bring us The GOSPEL,( sacrificing His own Son) and then use a false teacher to take a false gospel to anyone? That suggestion is completely anti-biblical, and totally contrary to the teaching of scripture.
ASK GOD THAT QUESTION!!!!
I've been on my knees for 4 years praying for North Korea, praying to protect the embryonic church there, praying for revival there, praying that God send workers and preachers there, praying that there be no war on that peninisula hidden and pressed and then I hear that Kim Jong Il asked Rick Warren to come there to speak.
so I posted it in joy and as a prayer point......and what followed is just heartbreaking.....because to me, it feels that nothing has changed, God does something in answer to prayer, and a multitude of vituperative naysayers bearing stones come flying out of the "temple" shrieking, "thats not God!!"
| 2006/7/13 9:53|
'barytle PLEASE explaine why God would go to the extrordinary lengths that He did to bring us The GOSPEL,( sacrificing His own Son) and then use a false teacher to take a false gospel to anyone? That suggestion is completely anti-biblical, and totally contrary to the teaching of scripture.'
These false teachers are not used by God, but the devil himself. Satan is the one that takes a fake, false gospel to people.
| 2006/7/13 10:23|
| Re: Anguish|
Anguish, no I don't work for Rick Warren, before I heard that Kim Jong Il asked him to come preach in North Korea, I knew very little about Rick Warren except that he wrote a popular book entitled the purpose driven church, which the Holy Spirit kept me away from.
I have been praying for 4 years for North Korea, and thank you for your suggestion to "Go straight to the Word". I find that a useful edifying daily practice.
It doesn't say too much about Rick Warren,but there are many occasions where God has used unusual messengers to convey his Message of salvation but it also sure has a lot to say about pharasaical behavior which has been amply demonstrated in this very thread, and dare I might suggest your post.
Brother, zeal and anguish are the food of the religious.
Seek Jesus, he will bring you Joy, and he'll help you put to death the inner pharisee that might be tormenting you.
I ask your forgiveness, I don't mean to seem harsh, but to ask me if I work for Rick Warren?
where did that come from?
There are 20 million North Koreans HUNGRY for the Word of God and for a vicious blood thirsty dictator like Kim Jong Il to invite a Gospel preacher into Pyongyang is huge, because it could mean an opening where many more Christians workers might be allowed to enter North Korea....or miracle upon miracle, what if this dictator himself asked the Saviour into his heart and life?
so please excuse me for getting impatient with your well intentioned zeal, in prayer I'm trying to look beyond what might be on the surface and pray for the truly miraculous.
Ask the Holy Spirit to give you the burden to pray with me.
| 2006/7/13 10:31|
Basically... do not ever forget that Satan is at work in this world.
His grip on the United States of America is so great, just look at it with open eyes.
Americans are more concerned about saving the trees while 4000 children are murdered everyday.
Even after purpose driven life sold millions here in the states. We are still murdering 4000 children EVERYDAY !
YOU WILL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS. What fruit has come out of Rick Warren other than mediocre Laodicean luke-warm church promotion ?
On another approach...
Matthew 6:2,3 by our Lord Jesus...
There when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have GLORY OF MEN. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth.
Not only does Rick Warren's left hand know what his right hand is doing, he is making sure that everyone across the world knows what he's doing for God... As if God were so desperate that He would have to rely on a fallen pastor preaching fallen doctrine to a dying generation.
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a f riend of the world is THE ENEMY OF GOD.
| 2006/7/13 10:40||Profile|
| Re: richardf|
I happpen to be a bit knowledgable about the efforts to evangelize North Korea, which are very sensitive, simply because a person can be put into a death camp for mere possession of a page of Scripture.
Hence, all efforts to train and place workers are very security concious.
but there are two religious organizations that are very out front about there efforts to enter North Korea. The Unification church more popularily known as the Moonies have spent HUNDREDS of millions of dollars IN North Korea to construct factories, baby toys, food........and the scientologists have committed milllions of dollars both IN COUNTRY and training workers in South Korea to spread the word of L Ron Hubbard.
so as to bandy about the term "false teachers", I would ask you to be a bit a more circumspect who you term satanic fake and false.
more bluntly put mate, why don't you think things thru before you post?
when North Korea implodes, or somehow opens up to the world the moonies and the scientologists will flood the country with their foul message, simply because the church of Jesus Christ was too intent on pointing fingers at each other labeling one another fake and false, when they should be putting up resource ,praying togther and training up a core of dedicated missionaries.
| 2006/7/13 10:50|
| I don't want anguish|
therefore I shall resist all temptation to answer anymore posts on this thread.
It is totally apparrent sir, that you didnt either HEAR or UNDERSTAND what I was trying to convey to you.
| 2006/7/13 10:57|
I feel brother that your heart is too full of pride.
If you read my post properly and within context, I was merely attempting to answer the question of which I quoted. I did not claim that your friend Rick was of Satan, I was not even mentioning him.
I feel you must take a look at yourself and stop jumping at peoples' throats. Read everyones' posts carefully and then make a judgement on what they meant.
As to your concern of me failing to think before I post, may I suggest that you think before jumping at people?
Remember that when you point the finger at somebody, there are three fingers pointing back at yourself.
I will not judge anybody unless I am perfect, although I urge you brother bartle to step back, take a time-out and read posts carefully before responding. I cannot help but sense there is something deeper to your attacks on people than purely caring about the subject.
I urge you to take a step back out of the limelight, and pray for discernment.
| 2006/7/13 11:01|
I feel brother that your heart is too full of pride
you say that to me whilst you call me brother and sign off this letter "with love"?
I will not judge anybody
yet you and many others have no problem trashing Rick Warren.
Richard, I'm not "jumping at people's throats", I'm rebuking them and you for suggesting that it is the enemy satan that is sending Rick Warren to North Korea to preach the Gospel which is that the Jesus died on the Cross for all sinners, and to accept this grace is to become a child of God.
My heart is not full of pride, its full of grief, that the church is chock full of pharisee's who have no problem cyber stoning a man on a non exclusive forum for wanting to go preach Christ to a nation that desperately needs it.
I am not pointing fingers at anybody, I've been watching a three day cyber stoning of a man, and frankly it sickens me, and now you get righteously rebuked and you tell me I'm full of pride and pointing fingers.
Revival in North Korea,,,pray for that.....all this other nonsense is just religion, and as I just wrote to the poster "IWantAnguish""...I will resist answering anymore posts in this thread.
| 2006/7/13 11:22|
Hmm... you seem to be missing the point here.
'...yet you and many others have no problem trashing Rick Warren.'
'Richard, I'm not "jumping at people's throats", I'm rebuking them and you for suggesting that is the enemy satan that is sending Rick Warren to North Korea to preach the Gospel which is that the Jesus died on the Cross for all sinners, and to accept this grace is to become a child of God.'
I have never once trashed Rick Warren, I have never even heard of him, hence asking why people slagged him off.
It also seems you have still failed to read my post in context. Please show me where I stated that Rick Warren was sent by the devil. I trust you will find nothing because I never said anything of the sort.
I signed off with love because I do not mean to make argument, although out of sheer love for you bartle I wish for you to re-focus, as I feel you are mis-interpreting anything and everything somebody has to say, as an excuse to tell people what you think of them.
| 2006/7/13 11:27|
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS
If we could just get our eyes of the short-term issues, and onto God's long term plan to have North Koreans from this generation in His Bride, perhaps we could work on our lack of faith in His power and judgment, rather than on crossing our t s and dotting the i s of our theology and our ungodly allegiance to men (whether we think they are of God and cruising, or, deserving of His bruising for their seemingly overt compromises).
i think this is a meaty thing to consider here, our own lack of faith in our Lord's power and sovereingty (which causes us to question the rationality of some of His decisions) God is sovereign and His purposes will be acomplished. i think our Lord raised up and put Rick warren in this position for that purpose but ultimately it will all be for His glory, not entirely sure how it will work out, i just know it will.
again the key issue here is not the doctrine of this man because ultimately God is sovereign and that is the key issue. how many times has our Lord used us in spite of our many faults, false theologies, self-righteousnesses and so on to His glory?
| 2006/7/13 12:12||Profile|