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crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Here

Quote:
was so impressed with Wesley's spirit



Quote:
Wesley's perfect, placid intrepidity, his loving calmness and serenity of spirit, amid whatever rage of violence and under whatever provocations and assaults, must always remain a wonder to the historian.



Ah, there ... A picture of our Lord. Is this not the wonder that ought to be said of us all? Sadly, it is far more often the powder keg, the virulent, the ...

[i]Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.[/i] Jam 3:10


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Mike Balog

 2006/6/25 8:14Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Following the link which Habakkuk supplied us for Butler, I found some things which might give us a better idea of the events surrounding the picture, though some of these descriptions appear to be of seperate events at different places, perhaps all connected though.

In a letter

"To John Baily [11]

LIMERICK, June 8, 1750." ...

Wesley seems to be responding to some controversy and the information that follows comes from

Quote:
the extracts of some papers which were lately put into my[Wesley's] hands,



These appear to be court depositions of some sort? Perhaps given in connection with the events surrounding the meeting house?

Here are a few excerpts...

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That on May 4 this deponent with some others went to the Mayor and told what had been done....that they threw much dirt and many stones at the people, both while they were in the house and when they came out: that the mob then fell upon them, both on men and women, with clubs, hangers, and swords; so that many of them were much wounded and lost a considerable quantity of blood.



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That on May 5 this deponent informed the Mayor of all, and also that Butler had openly declared there should be a greater mob than ever there was that night



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That on May 5, while he and others were assembled to hear the word of God, Nicholas Butler came down to the house where they were, with a very numerous mob: that when this deponent came out, they threw all manner of dirt and abundance of stones at him: that they then beat, bruised, and cut him in several places; that, seeing his wife on the ground and the mob abusing her still, he called out and besought them not to kill his wife: that on this one of them struck him with a large stick, as did also many others, so that he was hurt in several parts, and his face in a gore of blood.’




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That every day but one, from the 6th to the 16th of May, Nicholas Butler assembled a riotous mob before this deponent's house: that they abused all who came into the shop, to the great damage of this deponent's business



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That from the 16th of May to the 28th the mob gathered every day before his house: that on Sunday, 28, Butler swore they would come the next day and pull down the house of that heretic dog, and called aloud to the mob, “Let the heretic dogs indict you; I will bring you all off without a farthing cost.”



and when the mayor was induced to come with the mob he

Quote:
...said aloud, “It is your own fault for entertaining these preachers. If you will turn them out of your house, I will engage there shall be no more harm done; but if you will not turn them out, you must take what you will get”:



There are quite a few more, many more actually.

Now is this Cork, is this in Ireland?

As I was reading these I was amazed at what can happen even in countries that have supposedly embraced the Gospel.

Here is the link again

http://wesley.nnu.edu/john_wesley/letters/1750.htm


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2006/6/25 10:08Profile
crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Wesley

Hi Chris,

Reading through this, the same...

Quote:
As I was reading these I was amazed at what can happen even in countries that have supposedly embraced the Gospel.



.. thoughts. Utterly amazing the levels of hatered and malice and how much worse the religionist that would believe he is courting favor or defending the very thing lost on his conscience. Have a bit from Oswald Chambers elsewhere but something telling in this line here;

[i]There are comparatively few Pharisees to-day, the greater number are Sadducees[/i]

The Sadducees were the anti-Pharisaic party, and they went as far in believing too little as the Pharisees in the direction of believing too much. They were the sceptical religious party. Their beliefs lacked warmth and conviction. The weakness of the religious sentiment in them was partly the cause and partly the effect of another characteristic, viz. worldliness. The spiritual and eternal stirred them but faintly, consequently they had a more tenacious hold on the concerns of this present life.
Stalker*

Sorry for the digression, did find something related to:
Quote:
Now is this Cork, is this in Ireland?


I believe so, here is an outake and a link;

[i]On the 9th August, 1747, John Wesley sailed up Dublin's River Liffey after a 26 hour voyage across the sixty miles from Holyhead, in Wales. It was the first of twenty-one visits. He spent six and a half years in Ireland.

His host was William Lunell, a respected Banker and cloth merchant. He was a Huguenot but also a member of the infant Methodist Society being developed by the Rev. Thomas Williams.

Wesley arrived on a Sunday morning and preached that afternoon at Evensong in St Mary's church where he found "as gay and senseless a congregation as ever I saw."

Next day he rode out ten miles to meet with Archbishop Cobbe who had made serious objections to the Methodists preaching in any churches under his care or even in the open air. He considered them to be un-trained for the work. Wesley argued that they were as surely called to preach as either of them. The Archbishop did not agree.

The first Methodist place of Worship was in a former Lutheran Church at Marlborough Street. Later, a church book shop, widows' home, school and ministers' residence was built at Whitefriar Street.

Soon great persecution began. The apprentices to the weaving trade in the Liberties of Dublin led the riots. When Methodism reached Cork, the persecution continued. "No man is fit to be a preacher here who is not prepared to die at any moment" wrote Thomas Williams to Wesley.

Still, Wesley persevered. "Have patience with Ireland and she will repay you," he declared. Time has proved him right. A small Methodist community has provided two large secondary schools, an agricultural college, a theological college, a psychiatric clinic. Through the City Missions, Methodism has created several homes for the care of the elderly and the needy. The work continues.[/i]

A neat site, with some pictures and even more links: [url=http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/~smacsuib/methodist/index.html]Methodist Centenary Church [/url]


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Mike Balog

 2006/6/25 11:06Profile
habakkuk3
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Joined: 2005/10/18
Posts: 490
Virginia

 Re:

What amazes about all of these events is not the brutal nature of the attacks but rather the hearts of those who were attacked. Note the attacks were not limited to John and Charles Wesley.

Once a man or woman, a boy or a girl, totally sells out to following Jesus there will be a lot of angry people. It was no different in Jesus day, nor in the Wesley brothers. Should we somehow expect it to be different in our lives?

I watched the saints in China on that dear Chinasoul video. If you haven't seen it here is a link but you definitely need cable or DSL because the files are huge. [url=www.chinasoul.org]Christians in China[/url]

As I've thought about the Wesley brothers and the saints in China the first part of 1 Peter 4:1-4 has continually come to mind. 1Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, [b]arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin. 2As a result, he does not live the rest of his earthly life for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God.[/b] 3For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. 4They think it strange that you do not plunge with them into the same flood of dissipation, and they heap abuse on you.


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Ed Pugh

 2006/6/25 17:32Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: Why then anger?

Quote:
once a man or woman, a boy or a girl, totally sells out to following Jesus there will be a lot of angry people.


This begs a question: Why?

I suspect this has a lot to do with the new Management. In other words, once anyone becomes a follower of Christ, he or she is under new Management. Those whose power depends on their loyal subjects are threatened when any of them are no longer under their control.

It seems that the strongest hostility tends to come from religious and political forces – but families also are reluctant to see one of their members “defect”.

Diane


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Diane

 2006/6/25 18:39Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi Mike and everyone else.

Quote:
Utterly amazing the levels of hatered and malice and how much worse the religionist that would believe he is courting favor or defending the very thing lost on his conscience.



Can see in this also the same as

Quote:
They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.



and see again how the Bible so accurately portrays whatever facet of life it touches upon.

In regards to this being Ireland, you brought in another statement which I am amazed could be spoken in a western nation though I suppose this reaveals some ignorance on my part


Quote:
No man is fit to be a preacher here who is not prepared to die at any moment



In my mind, these sorts of things are said in eastern countries, in pagan lands. I suppose too I am forgetting some bits of history.

Am learning a little bit more of Church history here :-D


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2006/6/25 19:02Profile
crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: WESLEY’ LIFE WAS A TESTIMONY OF CHRIST. AND IT HAD EFFECT

Quote:
It was John Wesley's rule, confirmed, he says, by experience, "[u]always to look a mob in the face.[/u]" An indescribable dignity in his bearing, a light in his eyes, and a spiritual influence pervading his whole personality often overawed and captured the very leaders of the riots.



Brothers and sister ;-) All of this has really been just compelling and finds that inward agreement ... It is the character traits that have always gripped, the bottom line issues of the heart that the Lord was and always is after. The mind reel's in 10 different directions contemplating these ultimate matters, wanting to express it in so many different ways.
Quote:
An indescribable dignity in his bearing, a light in his eyes, and a spiritual influence pervading his whole personality



The underscored above has stuck in the last couple of days and it is descriptive by what character it was in him that followed; [i]An indescribable dignity in his bearing, a light in his eyes[/i]... I guess maybe what I am trying to articulate is that this character is of the whole man, where even words are of a practical unnecessity. It is the anti-thesis to [i]fruit inspecting[/i], it is just [i]evident[/i] and unmistakable ...

Act 22:15 For thou shalt [u]be[/u] his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.

Don't want to take that too far ... Guess I have often wondered why Wesley hasn't been more prominently brought forth in these parts. Glad to see this emphasis on his character rather than just his 'theology'. Been chewing on this the last couple;

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=11205&post_id=87319&order=0&viewmode=thread&pid=0&forum=34#87319]John Wesley~ THE CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART[/url]


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Mike Balog

 2006/6/27 10:21Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi everyone.

Quote:
It was John Wesley's rule, confirmed, he says, by experience, "always to look a mob in the face." An indescribable dignity in his bearing, a light in his eyes, and a spiritual influence pervading his whole personality often overawed and captured the very leaders of the riots.



after reading this I thought of...

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And in nothing terrified by your adversaries:...



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...which is [b]to them[/b] an evident token of [b]perdition[/b]...



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but [b]to you[/b] of [i]salvation[/i], and that of God.



a passage which has often challenged me and still does.


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2006/6/27 21:19Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: to look a mob in the face

Another random photo this morning. Thought I'd share it here.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=1410]History of Methodisim: A "black country" welcome[/url]

[i][b][color=000000]It was John Wesley's rule, confirmed, he says, by experience, "always to look a mob in the face." An indescribable dignity in his bearing, a light in his eyes, and a spiritual influence pervading his whole personality often overawed and captured the very leaders of the riots. [/color][/b][/i]


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2006/8/23 9:44Profile





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