| History of Methodism - food for thought|
The following picture came up as a random photo:
Parson, Butler's attack on the methodist chapel at cork 4
With some of the recent threads about preaching I thought this photo had alot for us to consider quietly, [b]both[/b] good and bad.
There is that old saying: a picture is worth a thousand words.
Christopher Joel Dandrow
| 2006/6/24 11:48||Profile|
| Re: History of Methodism - food for thought|
It is easy to shrink back when one feels the message is going to cause waves or even a raucus. This is a constant challenge. Today you just don't get invited back to preach or teach.
Robert Wurtz II
| 2006/6/24 15:21||Profile|
I thought this photo had alot for us to consider quietly
Does anyone know the background details of this illustration? It might be over a particularly convicting message by the pastor, or just another Anglo-Irish/Scottish/British/Prostestant/Catholic street fight! ;-)
| 2006/6/24 16:17||Profile|
Does anyone know the background details of this illustration? It might be over a particularly convicting message by the pastor, or just another Anglo-Irish/Scottish/British/Prostestant/Catholic street fight!
Haha, first, would you believe it that as I logged in to respond to this the photo came up again! So I took the opportunity to see if there were other photos related and saw one, but no more explanation. That's a good point you brought up Compton :-D . I'd be interested also to know more about the circumstances surrounding it.
Christopher Joel Dandrow
| 2006/6/24 16:37||Profile|
Oh, there were similar situations like the picture in the biography of John Wesley, but unfortunately I didn't read it in english.
How the crowd beat him and he is preaching, or he is running and in one moment says 'stop, stop, I want to tell you something' and he starts to preach, and after 15 min again running, it was very interesting in the same time very encouraging.
Maybe someone will find something to post.
| 2006/6/24 18:01||Profile|
Here I found something :-)
"The next day at Falmouth more serious perils awaited him. The rioters attacked the house where he was staying, and the noise was like "the taking of a city by storm." The outer door was forced; only a wainscot partition was between them and the object of their rage. Wesley calmly took down a large looking-glass which hung against the partition. The daughter, Kitty, cries out, "O, sir, what must we do?"
"We must pray," he replied.
"But, sir, is it not better for you to hide yourself ?"
"No," said Wesley. "It is best for me to stand just where I am."
The crews of some privateers, to hurry matters, set their shoulders to the inner door, and cried, "Avast, lads, avast!" and the door gave way. Wesley stepped forward at once and said: "Here I am. Which of you has anything to say to me? To which of you have I done any wrong? Toyou? Or you? Or you?" He walked on as he talked until he came to the middle of the street, when, raising his voice, he cried with great dignity:
"Neighbors, countrymen! Do you desire to hear me speak ?"
"Yes, yes," they answered; "he shall speak."
The captains of the mob, admiring his courage, commanded silence while he spoke, and afterward conducted him in safety to another house. "
| 2006/6/24 18:06||Profile|
There are no accidents in God's way of thinking. :-)
I'm digging around for you on a site that has a lot of outstanding resources and I posted a few "blips" to whet your appetite. Here's the link to the Wesley Center Online and I would suggest doing a search after you look at the information on Mr. Butler. [url=http://wesley.nnu.edu/john_wesley/letters/1750.htm]Butler[/url]
The Methodists were considered, particularly at first, almost subhuman and the actual attacks they received were quite vicious.
It appears that such persecutions were not uncommon and there was great opposition and persecution from the "church" of that day. I was really convicted when I read this regarding Cork from Charles Wesley's personal journal.
Quote: Am I inflamed with love, grief, and pity when I am persecuted? Ouch, need to take that one to the prayer closet.
Wed., June 28th. I read the Society an account of the persecution at Cork. All were inflamed with love, grief, pity. We parted in the spirit of prayer.
Here's another blurb I found.
On his second visit to Cork, in 1750, where he was accompanied by Christopher Hopper, riots broke out with renewed violence. He went to Bandon to preach, but the Cork mob followed him and hung him in effigy. His best guardians were the soldiers, many of whom became stanch Methodists, and the mob became more afraid of them than of the mayor, to whom Wesley wrote a letter closing with these words: "I fear God and honor the king. I earnestly desire to be at peace with all men. I have not willingly given any offense either to the magistrates, the clergy, or any of the inhabitants of the city of Cork; neither do I desire anything of them but to be treated (I will not say as a clergyman, a gentleman, or a Christian) with such justice and humanity as are due to a Jew, a Turk, or a pagan."
There are some depositions from the attacks contained on the website as well, which are quite remarkable. Here's another quote
Wesley asked him what he looked for when the mob came upon them. To die for Him who had died for us, was his noble answer.
And yet another quote from a biography I found online
It was John Wesley's rule, confirmed, he says, by experience, "always to look a mob in the face." An indescribable dignity in his bearing, a light in his eyes, and a spiritual influence pervading his whole personality often overawed and captured the very leaders of the riots.
And yet another incident
When Wesley was preaching at Gwennap two men raging like maniacs rode furiously into the midst of the congregation and began to lay hold upon the people. Wesley commenced singing, and one man cried to his attendants, "Seize him, seize him, I say; seize the preacher for his majesty's service." Cursing the servants for their slowness, he leaped from his horse, caught Wesley by the cassock, crying, "I take you to serve his majesty." Wesley walked with him three quarters of a mile, when the courage of the bravo failed, and, finding he was dealing with a gentleman, he offered to take him to his house, but Wesley declined the invitation. The man called for horses and took Wesley back to the preaching place.
And one final thing
Miss Wedgwood, who is far from being a Methodist, says, [b]concerning John Wesley: "Nothing that could form the flimsiest pretext for the treatment received by his followers can be brought home to him. He does not appear to have separated families; he never went where he had not a perfect right to be; he addressed those whom he regarded as beyond his pale in courteous and modern language; he never thrust his exhortations on anybody. The attacks of enemies, and even the accounts of alienated disciples, may be read without extracting a single anecdote that we should think discreditable to him; indeed, it is from this source that we derive much valuable, because unconscious, testimony to the good influence of his code on secular life. We cannot, then, admit that Wesley's errors of judgment or limitations of sympathy had even the slightest share in producing the popular fury of which instances have just been given."[/b]
Are we willing to suffer like this dear brother did? And if so, we will receive it with the same spirit that they received it. You don't see any of them defending themselves but quite the opposite. Here is a picture of what Jesus wants to do in our day. Are we ready or more specifically am I ready?
| 2006/6/24 18:07||Profile|
Habakkuk and Tears of joy, thanks for digging these things up! Truth is I have a great deal of appreciation for the impression I've been given of this man of God but know very little about the actuall events of his life and ministry.
Challenging indeed! and encouraging.
Christopher Joel Dandrow
| 2006/6/25 0:45||Profile|
Santa Clara, CA
You don't see any of them defending themselves but quite the opposite.
Thanks brothers, would be great to see this continue, some outstanding outakes here.
| 2006/6/25 0:57||Profile|
| Re: WHY WAS WESLEY PERSECUTED?|
I read the link submitted by TearsofJoy. Here are a few quotes. I emboldened the thoughts that struck me. It reminds me that there are both legitimate reasons and illegitimate reasons for being persecuted. Wesley maintained purity, and so, could never be justly accused.
The reasons assigned by the rioters themselves for their opposition to Methodism were very various and curious, but they often echoed the pulpit cries of the day, or were the outcome of passing popular and unreasoning excitement ready to seize on any excuse for violence.
The bigoted rector of Penzance had several Methodists committed to prison, among them Edward Greenfield, a tanner, who had a wife and seven children. Wesley asked what objection there was to this peaceable man, and the answer came: "The man is well enough in other things; but his impudence the gentlemen cannot bear. Why, sir, he says he knows his sins are forgiven!" :-)
"Nothing that could form the flimsiest pretext for the treatment received by his followers can be brought home to him. He does not appear to have separated families;
he never went where he had not a perfect right to be; he addressed those whom he regarded as beyond his pale in courteous and modern language;
he never thrust his exhortations on anybody.
The attacks of enemies, and even the accounts of alienated disciples, may be read without extracting a single anecdote that we should think discreditable to him; indeed, it is from this source that we derive much valuable, because unconscious, testimony to the good influence of his code on secular life.
We cannot, then, admit that Wesley's errors of judgment or limitations of sympathy had even the slightest share in producing the popular fury of which instances have just been given."
The main responsibility of these riots lay with the clergymen and "gentlemen" who stirred up the excitable people, and cannot be attributed to any illegal or rash actions of the Wesleys.
A spokesman answered, "To be plain, sir, if I must speak the truth, all the fault I find with him is that he preaches better than our parsons." :-?
Another said: "Sir, it is a downright shame; he makes people rise at five in the morning to sing psalms. :-P
WESLEY LIFE WAS A TESTIMONY OF CHRIST. AND IT HAD EFFECT:
The clergyman at Darlaston was so struck with the meek behavior of the Methodists in the midst of suffering that he offered to join the Wesleys in punishing the rioters.
captain of the rabble, who had rescued Wesley, he was so impressed with Wesley's spirit that he immediately forsook his godless, profligate gang, and was received on trial into the Methodist society by Charles
Wesley's perfect, placid intrepidity, his loving calmness and serenity of spirit, amid whatever rage of violence and under whatever provocations and assaults, must always remain a wonder to the historian. His heroism was perfect; his self-possession never failed him for a moment; the serenity of his temper was never ruffled. Such bravery and self-command and goodness, in circumstances so terrible and threatening, were too much for his persecutors everywhere. He always triumphed in the end."
| 2006/6/25 7:16||Profile|