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 Re:

Quote:
Look at Stephens messages in Acts. That message took like a whole chapter or more. It was concise, but it brought tremendous understanding. The people could not resist the wisdom. There is much more to this than just getting up with that message, but I think we can glean something from Stephens method.



"[b]You[/b] stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, [b]you[/b] do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do [b]ye[/b]." [b]Ac 7:51[/b]

If you are going to preach as Stephen did, [b]directly[/b] to sinners about [b]their specific[/b] sins, be prepared to be stoned.

Or if we preach directly and specificly as Peter did in the book of Acts: "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom [b]you[/b] have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard [b]this[/b], they were [b]pricked in their heart[/b], and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? " [b]Ac 2:36-37[/b]

Sure we would all like to see 3,000 saved as Peter did on the day of Pentecost. But are we willing to publicly call people out on their sin as Peter did on the day of Pentecost? When preachers have their own pentecost and get full of the Spirit of God they will.

"Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, [b]whom you crucified[/b], whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole." [b]Ac 4:10[/b]

Dare any of us be as direct and pointy as James and say to sinners, "cleanse your hands [b]you sinners[/b]"? [b]Jas 4:8[/b]

Or dare any of us be as strong as John and preach so strong against sin as to say, "He that committeth sin is of the devil" [b]1Jo 3:8[/b]

[b]We need to preach as they did in the book of Acts.[/b] And what do we see in the book of Acts? Stephen, Peter, Paul all publicly pointing out peoples [b]specific[/b] sins and called them to repent.

It was not only in the book of Acts, but also in the gospels. John the Baptist for example: "For John had said unto Herod, It is not [b]lawful[/b] for [b]thee[/b] to have thy brother's wife." [b]Mr 6:18.[/b]

And what happened to John? Did Herod get saved? Did John get invited to the palace to have tea with his new friend? No, he was hated and beheaded. That's bible.

What is the message Jesus always intended us to bring to the world? "And that [b]repentance and remission[/b] of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem." [b]Lu 24:47.[/b]

REPENTANCE and REMISSION. Not only remission as I fear some of these boards are promoting. But that you must turn and live, and that means turning even from the sin of immodesty. Repentance alone should not be preached. Remission alone should not be preached. It's not one or the other but both. That is the balance. Repentance and remission of sins must be preached to all nations, not only America, but all.

And it was that message that Paul brought, "Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, [b]repentance[/b] toward God, and [b]faith[/b] toward our Lord Jesus Christ." [b]Ac 20:21[/b]

We need to warn sinners as Paul did, "Him we preach, [b]warning[/b] every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus." [b]Col 1:28[/b]

Judgment was a part of Pauls gospel, "In the day when God shall [b]judge[/b] the secrets of men by Jesus Christ [b]according to my gospel[/b]." [b]Ro 2:16[/b].

Jesus must be preached not only as Savior, as I fear some of these boards are promoting, but also as judge!!! Or you are not preaching the same gospel Paul preached.

I fear many preachers are out of tune with the Spirit of God today. What does the Holy Spirit want to do? "And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment." [b]Joh 16:8[/b]. And here you see Paul working hand in hand with the Spirit, "And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee." [b]Ac 24:25.[/b]

And again under the guidance of Spirit what did Paul do in the book of Acts? "Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry. Therefore [b]disputed[/b] he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him." [b]Acts 17:16-17[/b].

When was the last time your "spirit was stirred" in you to "dispute" with sinners every day??

What else did Paul do under the guidance of the Holy Spirit? Did he hug sorcorers and tell him how deeply he loved him? Is that what we see in the book of Acts? "Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him, And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?" [b]Acts 13:9-10.[/b]

If your gospel message only contains "God loves you. God loves you." I would dare to say that you are hindering the Spirit of God. [b]If[/b] you are not talking about sin and about judgment, along with the cross of Christ, you are no preacher of the gospel at all.

I have been reading, "An Alarm to Unconverted Sinners" by Joseph Alliene. Though I feel these threads would cruficy Alliene if he were here today, we need to get back to the pure message of the bible, the message Joseph Alliene boldly declared to his generation.

I have listed a great deal of scriptures, [b]mostly from the book of Acts[/b], but now here are two quote from Ravenhill, a man many on these threads respect.

“Finney never made an altar call within the first twenty eight nights of preaching. Most of our evangelists don’t have twenty eight sermons. Twenty eight nights in a row and he never made an altar call. He didn’t preach the love of God. He didn’t say “you’re a sinner, God loves you.” He said “God is angry with the wicked every day” (Ps 7:11) which the Word of God says. He didn’t preach grace, he preached Law. He didn’t preach love, he preached judgment. He didn’t preach heaven, he preached hell. He didn’t say “you’re a wonderful person” he said “you’re a rebel”. But he got results. 64% of D. L. Moodys converts backslid, 72% of the converts Finney got stood because he knew how to attack the human will, not just the emotions.” [b]Leonard Ravenhill[/b]

“I don’t believe there is a man on the whole TV that preaches salvation. They preach forgiveness. Forgiveness is not salvation. They point out “there’s a man in bed with some other mans wife in a Motel’. “Oh you know the Lord loves you just as you are.” Well then why get changed? Commit adultery as much as you like. He still loves you. Be a cheat, be a liar, be a thief, and be a failure. He still loves you. But there’s a scripture. Isn’t it the Psalms 7….where it says “God is angry with the wicked every day.” I heard somebody quote today “God loves you but hates your sin” that’s bunken. God hates you for committing the sin. Is God going to take your sins and judge them at the Judgment and leave you alone?” [b]Leonard Ravenhill[/b]

As the Pharisees it seems we build sepulture for these men like Alliene, Finney, Ravenhill now that they are dead. But would we accept them if they were here today?

 2006/6/20 23:55
mileslewis
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Joined: 2004/12/3
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 Re:

Now that is a good word brother Jesse. Great report! Keep preaching the pure gospel as I know you do.


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Miles Lewis

 2006/6/21 1:37Profile
Christisking
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 Re:

This is a copy of a post I made on Jesse site regaurding the same issue.

[url=http://openairoutreach.proboards52.com/index.cgi?board=openairpreaching&action=display&thread=1150768102]http://openairoutreach.proboards52.com/index.cgi?board=openairpreaching&action=display&thread=1150768102[/url]

Quote:
Now I personally am in total agreement with preaching things like a 5 point message against bikini's. However, I am wondering if all of that would fall under the "Pure Message" category. Just wondering.



It absolutely does not fall under the "Pure Message" category. In fact, it is unbiblical and harmful to Christ and the furtherance of the Gospel. Jesse I truly feel you need to repent and stop such preaching. I feel that there is a strong argument that it would better for Jesse to not preach at all and seek after the Lord and the Holy Spirit instead of preaching in such a manner. I feel this type of preaching is doing more harm then good and is an embarrassment to legitimate open-air preachers both past and present. It is like going to a rock concert and preaching against rock music.

Of course we preach against sin and preach the full council of God, but there is a way to do it and ways not to do it. There are those who walk around homosexual parades wearing sandwich boards that say “G- God A- Abhors Y- You” as and acronym for GAY or “Homo Sex Makes God Want To Vomit” Here is a link to some actual street preaching banners for sale. This is not a joke. Not all of the banners are bad, but many are clearly WRONG!!! And this type preaching against sin is harmful and I believe a reproach to Jesus.

[url=http://www.officialstreetpreachers.com/banner/BANNER501.htm ]http://www.officialstreetpreachers.com/banner/BANNER501.htm [/url]

Now I am certainly not advocating a “God loves you in your sins” modern Gospel message at all. My text for Saturday was “how shall you escape if you neglect so great salvation” I preached a 20-minute open-air discourse on hell, wrath, vengeance and eternal torture and punishment for all who don’t repent turning from there sins and those who neglect so great salvation There were many openly weeping and in tears. Then I followed with 10 –15 minutes of what is “so great salvation” and what it means to neglect it. I am not against such preaching when directed by the Holy Spirit and preached out of a spirit of compassion and loved birthed in fasting, prayer, weeping, travail and tears. But to go to a beach and preach against bikinis and list those five points or even to just say “to much flesh” is not the preaching of Christ and Christ crucified we find in the Books of the New Testament. Now one could find a Scripture here or there and pull it out to try to justify ones actions and say “see this type of preaching is Biblical” but to even suggest Jesus or Peter or Paul going down to the beach and preaching 5 points against bikinis is unthinkable!!! Think Ravenhill would have went down to the beach and preached 5 points against bikinis – think again.

I was hoping that the thread on “purity in preaching” had caused Jesse and others to repent as it had appeared by their posts, but now it sadly seems that this was not the case.

[url=http://openairoutreach.proboards52.com/index.cgi?board=sayitall&action=display&thread=1149900998&page=1]http://openairoutreach.proboards52.com/index.cgi?board=sayitall&action=display&thread=1149900998&page=1[/url]

If my words seem harsh, they are not to ridicule or condemn, but rather my harsh words are a continued attempt to wake up brothers to the errors of their ways and bring them to repentance. I respect and agree with much of what Jesse has to say, but this type of preaching is wrong, not lead by the Holy Spirit, shameful to Jesus and MUST stop. I am not an expert on street preaching or claim to be perfect in my words, but I know what the Lord has dealt with me about and I can feel His grief when I read and watch things like this happening.

Quote:
I have had a sincere brother in the Lord tell me that he does not agree with the 5 point sermon. He says he can't image the Apostles preaching something like that. I never thought too much of it because I have heard far worse. But I look for truth in every criticism. As Pastor Britt Williams warns, open air preachers are criticized so much that they can become harded to all criticism, even good criticism.



I hope this true and that you will take these words to heart for these matters have grieved my heart deeply. We MUST return to purity in our preaching in these very crucial and wicked days. We must preach directed by and with the unction of the Holy Spirit endued with power form on high. Please seek the Lord in prayer on these issues and know that you will be in my prayers.

[url=http://gospeltruth.net/1944power_from_on_high/power.htm]http://gospeltruth.net/1944power_from_on_high/power.htm[/url]

In the love of Christ,
Patrick


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Patrick Ersig

 2006/6/21 1:46Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
If you are going to preach as Stephen did, directly to sinners about their specific sins, be prepared to be stoned.


That is a incorrect understanding of the passage he wasn't pointing out the "specific sins" of anyone, he was clearly showing the promises in the Old Testament pointing towards a coming Messiah, he tells them that they crucified this Messiah "the Just One; of whome ye have been now the betrayers and murders." This is not gospel preaching but telling them of their consquence of already betraying and dis-owning Jesus Christ. They could still surely repent from this wickedness that they accomplished but there was no [b]good news[/b] (Gospel) preached here.

There was a call to repent to Israel who has rejected Jesus Christ. Not a call to believe for they could not recieve the good news until they reliazed their sin against Christ Himself as the promised Messiah.

This is a special case and really I don't think can be used as a strong prove text on how to preach to people as in preaching the gospel. Should we then all go out and accuse people of killing Jesus and try and insue people to cause us bodily harm?

Quote:
Ac 2:36-37, Ac 4:10


These verses again is a special case towards those that partook of the actual killing of Christ and rejection of Him. I am not saying that there is not any truth in the fact that in some ways we have partook of that also but I do believe that there is a difference and that is why there is a difference in the preaching of the gospel later on in Acts towards those that were not in Jersalum that did and approved of this crucifying of Christ.

Quote:
Dare any of us be as direct and pointy as James and say to sinners, "cleanse your hands you sinners"? Jas 4:8

Or dare any of us be as strong as John and preach so strong against sin as to say, "He that committeth sin is of the devil" 1Jo 3:8


Though in truth as you are stating they speak to the state of those that are lost without Christ. It is found in messages to the church and paticularly is speaking to the "brethren" those that are saved as a warning and exhoration to keep from all form of sin and evil. To be seperate and holy as God is Holy. I am not saying it does not apply at all in the other circumstance I mentioned first but we have to remember context with these things. Personally you would be hard pressed to find early church fathers preaching to people saying they are of the devil. They are spiritually diserned they have no idea! Not that we cannot mention it to people but is that our first and main aim to tell them they are deluded by the prince of the power of the air, or to point them to Christ the author of life, without him there is no life.

Quote:
We need to preach as they did in the book of Acts. And what do we see in the book of Acts? Stephen, Peter, Paul all publicly pointing out peoples specific sins and called them to repent.


I really encourage you to read onto the next 10 chapters and see if there is any change in preaching style and what can be gleamed from it. I believe you will find more of a balance then. I am not trying to be frank with my comments and I am saying this with a heart to see people seek out the whole counsel of God, and by no means do I claim to know everything. These are my opinions and definetly I am missing many spaces in responses that need to be filled in. I am not blanket judging you at all Jesse, I think this is a healthy forum to get down to the truth, which is the word of God! comparing spiritual with spiritual. :-)

Quote:
And what happened to John? Did Herod get saved? Did John get invited to the palace to have tea with his new friend? No, he was hated and beheaded. That's bible.


Yes it is bible! there is times to name out sins and call people out, not to condemn them for that is only God's work but when called of Him there surely can be a naming of sin, to expose darkness with light. But if that were a principle and was to be put to action all the time then we would find ourselves with lack of time to sufficiently call out all the grevious sins of those even in leadership in our countries.

So obviously this is something that is not done often or as a principle but is God through His saints exposing darkness in certain places as a means of glorifying God. If they are saved or not, if it was God that called you to expose the darkness then it glorifies Him.

Quote:
turning even from the sin of immodesty


Those that are depraved in their sins have [b]not the power at all[/b] to deliver themselves or repent of the sins themselves. They can have a change of mind towards God and desire God but without God being first I find it hard to imagine sinners cleaning themselves up before the cross. Perhaps this could be something we could look into deeper in another thread with deeper looks into certain scriptures.

Quote:
repentance toward God


I assume you could propose that the meaning of this would mean also "away from sin" and surely that is what happens when people come to God to be cleansed of their sin and delivered from their bondage. But the "repentance" is not that thing that delivers? (am I right or wrong there?)

I am not fully disagreeing with you Jesse and you have posted alot of truth obviously, lets continue further with this by the patience of God and allow God to speak to us all about these things.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2006/6/21 2:10Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
Of course we preach against sin and preach the full council of God, but there is a way to do it and ways not to do it. There are those who walk around homosexual parades wearing sandwich boards that say “G- God A- Abhors Y- You” as and acronym for GAY or “Homo Sex Makes God Want To Vomit” Here is a link to some actual street preaching banners for sale. This is not a joke. Not all of the banners are bad, but many are clearly WRONG!!! And this type preaching against sin is harmful and I believe a reproach to Jesus.


I do think that this really is wrong also. The reason why their is a rampant sodomite invasion upon the world is because the church is sleeping, the church is lacking unity (which is the love Christ prayed for us in John 17). I find most people that go out and hold up signs like this really lack love to other brethren. Those in sodomy really do know its wrong but what are their alternatives? going to a hyprocrite church? It's by God's grace that I am saved, I believed the church to be full of hyprocrites and they were all fake. I could see that some seemed to be genuine good people but the mass of them seemed to me to be fakers! and sadly that's what alot of these people that are finding community and acceptance in the homosexual movement. It is very sad and disturbing we need to pray church.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2006/6/21 2:19Profile









 Re:Brother Jesse

I've been sitting here for quite a while, (again) and praying and meditating about what you wrote, and what you BELIEVE is the correct way to convey the message of "Jesus Christ and Him crucified" to the lost, and I do say lost, I don't say "sinners", because you are a sinner, as I am, even lower than you I dare to say...

But please don't fall into the trap of the professional religionist, that pharisee, who thanked God that he was not as low and sin-filled as the publican at the other end of the pew, while that publican just beat his breast and begged God to save a sinner like me....no pretense, no religious pride, just an overweening desire for God to save him, and love him.

Why don't you do this, find the nearest AIDS hospice, filled with dying gay males, and offer to pray with them, hold their hands, and most importantly LISTEN to them, and when they have disgorged all their fears, and confusion over a life gone wrong and in rebellion to a God who STILL loves them, then in that pause, tell them, with the love only the Holy Spirit can fill you with that there is a Saviour who can wash away all their sins in His Blood shed on Calvalry, and welcome them back as beloved prodigals....only if....only if, they will ask Him in.

or go to a battered women and childrens shelter, and offer to pray with them and LISTEN to countless stories of lives gone wrong, ill-founded decisions based on lust and carnality and all sorts of Christless foolishness, and then face them with this fact....a beautiful fact, that if they accept that Jesus Christ is the Brother, the Father, the Teacher, Husband they have been seeking all their lives, then He will lift them from the mire and mud and clean with His precious Blood and teach them in His Holy Spirit.

Thats not being soft on sin, thats being heavy on Jesus, the Lamb of God, offered for the life of the WORLD.


Let me be frank with you, in the love of the Lord, I think, from your public witness on this forum, that you are going down a wrong path, and that is the path of the pharisee, the professional religionist with a hard heart, pride soaked at its own righteouness and holiness, excoriating and haranguing the lost.

That is not planting a seed, but grinding it underneath the millstone of religion.

A witness is the man who tells how Christ changed his life, tells how Christ loves him.

Christ's love is irrevocable, it is final, it is real, show the lost that love in your own life, and they will desire THAT more than anything.....THEN you will have got hold of the right end of the stick.

May God bless you, and forgive me if my harsh words offended you.

bartle

 2006/6/21 2:28
roadsign
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Posts: 3777


 Re: Knowing the REAL problem leads the the right solution

As you know from my earlier post, I did not accept the answer given to the original question: “What’s wrong with bikinis?” I felt that the suggestions given cannot lead us to workable or godly solutions.

Actually, insufficient beach covering is wrong because of the danger of sun exposure -predisposing the skin to cancer. Another problem has more to do with hanging out on the beach than the attire: It is simply not the best social environment for our youth. It is a waste of precious time. If our youth really value themselves they will spend their time preparing themselves for their future, developing skills, talents, and healthy relationships, and learn from older men and women.

Now, I would like to address the problem of temptation to men (which I suspect is the real concern here):

I once suggested to a young lady that her attire might attract men to her body. She said, “Good, that’s the way it should be.” I then suggested that it might make her look available, and she said, “Of course not! Guys know that I am not like that. I make it clear.” So, you see, as I pointed out earlier, we’re dealing with much more than meets the surface.

Yesterday I was visiting a friend and her 80 yo father. At one point I could tell in my spirit and by in his eyes that he started to have lustful thoughts towards me. Surely it was not because my arms were showing. The first thing I had to do was resolve that the problem was not me, but him. Really it was a spiritual problem. So I started talking about God. That redirected his mind to some powerful hidden emotions – his bitterness towards the church and God. Actually, he was an atheist. Clearly it was his soul that needed changing, not my attire or behavior. I didn’t need to flee. It was my God-given responsibility, out of love, to point him God-ward. In the end, he respected me for it.

Now, as I pointed out earlier, you will never get rid of the problem of fleshly exposure. It was around in Bible days. In the Greek empire nude status were common in the marketplace.

If a solution to any problem requires something that one has no control over, then one is looking in the wrong place. In other words, if the solution to male lust lies with choices made by females in our society, then, alas, there is no hope for many of our young men.

As I pointed out earlier, you cannot make females the cause or solution of a male problem. The development of mature men does not lie in the females (alone) . He must take responsibility and personal accountability for his life. That is biblical. If the best he can come up with is to impose a dress code on the females, then he has failed to change anything within himself. He has failed to move himself, or his fellow men God-ward. He has failed to grow in love.

Quote:
How many hours have you spent in your prayer closet weeping over the conditions of these poor girls who in their lack of self worth have unwittingly become co-workers of Satan?


Amen brother! This is love. You are looking beyond outer appearance and seeing the heart condition. As you keep looking you see a far greater sin problem than meets the eye. Ex the manipulative, greedy fashion industry, ungodly society values etc.

An unmarried young man once told his mother that he was looking for the virtuous woman like in Prov. 31. She said, “You won’t find her, but she will become one through the way you treat her.”

So, as spiritual heads, leaders, as elders of church and society a big responsibility lies with our men. Our young ladies will behave (and dress) in response to how they are treated.

It is a spiritual issue, really.

What might the role of our elders be? How might they teach younger men?

Diane




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Diane

 2006/6/21 5:23Profile
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 Re: Be proactive Christians

Quote:
or go to a battered women and childrens shelter, and offer to pray with them and LISTEN to countless stories of lives gone wrong, ill-founded decisions based on lust and carnality and all sorts of Christless foolishness, and then face them with this fact....a beautiful fact, that if they accept that Jesus Christ is the Brother, the Father, the Teacher, Husband they have been seeking all their lives, then He will lift them from the mire and mud and clean with His precious Blood and teach them in His Holy Spirit.



Amen to your post, bartle. How can anyone know what Christ is like without seeing it and experience it in his people.


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Diane

 2006/6/21 5:26Profile
KingJimmy
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 Re:

Quote:

Until a person understands their sin, they can never understand the cross.



A person will never have a revelation of how horriable sin is unless they have a revelation of Christ. It is the cross the shows the horriableness of sin, not sin the horriableness of the cross.



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Jimmy H

 2006/6/21 6:16Profile
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 Re:

Quote:

You stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye." Ac 7:51

If you are going to preach as Stephen did, directly to sinners about their specific sins, be prepared to be stoned.



Notice though how little of Stephens preaching did this though. Most of his preaching was simply a rehashing of Hebrew history.


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Jimmy H

 2006/6/21 6:20Profile





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