| Poster | Thread |
| | Re: | | Quote:
Christinyou wrote:
Logic posted questions, answer's below.
(1) What does "the Blood" mean or represeant?
A. Atonement
(2) What is "the Blood" that you are pleeding?
B. The Blood of the Atonement, nothing else.
(3) What is the purpose of the pleading?
C. Unknown
(4) Why does the Blood need to be pleaded?
D. It does not.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Stever responds:
Jesus Christ is : 1) Our Passover 2) The Firstfruits of the Resurrection 3) Our Atonement
4) the END OF THE LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS, for all that believe in HIM!
1) 1 Cor 5:7
For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
2) Jesus Christ is the Firstfruits of the Resurrection. He resurrected from the dead on Sunday, the 17th of Abib, on the day of Firstfruits. He is also the very first man, resurrected from the dead in a new, glorified, eternal body, and some day we will have one exactly like HIS.
1 Cor 15:20-23 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
3) Romans 5:11 Christ is our atonement
11. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
4) Jesus Christ is the END OF THE LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS, for all that believe in HIM! Romans 10: 4. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Since Jesus Christ is our Passover, as found in Gods Word (1 Cor 5:7), what does the Old Testament teach us about this feast, that was to be kept forever as a memorial to the LORD? This feast, that was so important, that God commanded them to make the 7th month Abib that Passover occurred in, their first month from then on, to the end of time? (Exodus 12:2)
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
What is the teaching of the Passover, as found in the Old and New Testament?
God bless,
Stever :-D
|
|  2006/6/20 7:04 | | Logic
Member
Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791
| | Re: | | Christinyou wrote: Quote:
Our life is in Christ, not the blood.
The life is not in the blood, it is Christ and His Body and Spirit, that we have life in. Christ in you the Hope of Glory.
I beg to differ on only one of your statements:
[b]Levi 17:11 [color=990000]For the life of the flesh is in the blood:[/b] and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.[/color] |
| | 2006/6/20 10:23 | Profile | philologos
Member
Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK
| | Re: | | Graftedbranch's Quote:
I believe there is basis in some aspect in Revelation 12:11, "For the Accuser of our brothers is cast down .. and they overcame Him because of the Blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony, and because they loved not their soul life even unto death."
That is, the Blood speaks to the accuser. He accuses, we testify to the Blood, The Spirit witnesses to the Blood, and the accuser is silenced.
All these phrases are variations of the full phrase which is 'the blood of the cross' which is a reference to Christ's life poured out in death at Calvary.
I do not mean to be disrespectful but the physical blood of Christ had no special powers. Those who crucified him and pierced his side with the spear were almost certainly covered in it; as we those who whipped him, beat him and thrust a thorny crown on his head. His blood had no cleansing effect upon any of these people. The value of the blood is the value of the life and the blood of Christ is precious because that life was poured out at Calvary.
Quote:
Surely in some pentecostal circles this has been turned into a magical cure all and elixer and as most things are in those circles, taken to wild extreams akin to making the sign of the cross to ward off vampires, but its misuse should not remove it from our arsonal of weapons of warfare as part of the sword of the Spirit.
The phrase is not part of our 'arsenal of weapons'; the truth of what happend at Calvary is.
_________________
Ron Bailey
|
| | 2006/6/20 13:52 | Profile | philologos
Member
Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK
| | Re: | | Quote:
As you will see in the next section, you can also Plead the Blood of Jesus on specific things like your body, your house, your car, your finances, etc. The goal is to Plead the Blood on those things in order to protect you before any kind of adversity should come your way.
This is really nonsense. We are drifting into the whole area of amulets and magic spells.
Quote:
I personally believe that the answer is yes, and that is why God the Father seems willing to honor any believer who will plead the blood on whatever he wants protection on before any attack can come their way just like He did in the story of the Passover with His own chosen people.
They never did plead the blood at the Passover. They daubed it over their doorposts and a testimony that the people on the inside were 'eating the Lamb'.
Quote:
Ex. 12:7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
Our job is to feed on the Lamb not to invent pointless traditions. The Passover is particularly significant in that the blood was a sign to defend them... not from the devil but from God!!
The 'blood' is our defence against a righteous wrath not against Satanic hosts.
_________________
Ron Bailey
|
| | 2006/6/20 14:00 | Profile |
| | Re: Pleading the blood | |
philologos,
I am genuinely surprised to hear you take this line on this topic, since I think every one of us knows that all these truths must be applied by the Holy Spirit not only to our understanding but also to our inner lives.
I remember you pointed out in another thread (no idea which) that when the reference in Hebrews 2 to Jesus death refers to His 'tasting' it for us, that in Hebrew thought, this means [i]took the [u]whole[/u] draught[/i] of death for us.
Would it be true to say, then, that Paul's references to the shedding of His blood for the remission of sins, carries the same quality of [u]total[/u] outpouring, even though the blood He actually shed was not His entire circulating volume, nor did it [i]cause[/i] His death?
|
| | 2006/6/20 16:16 | | Christinyou
Member
Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.
| | Re: | | Logic wrote: "I beg to differ on only one of your statements:
Levi 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul."
This is the blood of animals atonement, on the altar in the temple. This is outward atonement not inward. The soul is not the Spirit of Christ. The Spirit of Christ is never called the soul. We are not born again of the soul of Christ which is just in the mind of man. Salvation by the Cross and by the Blood of Christ's Atonement is in Spirit, not the flesh. I don't see the spirit of any of the animals sacrificed not the altar in the temple being the salvation of Israel. The sacrifice of Christ is so much more. The Blood sprinkled God accepted for the Spirit of Christ, that was what God intended to put into the new believer after the Cross. Not only a New Spirit but the old spirit of Satan and all sin cast out by the by the New Spirit of Christ Born Again in the believer. Ephesians 2:2-3 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
No more sin for the believer, but we do still have trespasses against God. The sin nature is out and the God nature is in, "Christ in you the Hope of Glory". Now our trespasses are no longer sin to God because of Jesus Christ and His Shed Blood, our atonement. Now when we trespass we confess our sin which is not the sin nature of Satan our old father but our trespasses against God, and in confession we have forgiveness and repentance. The greatest thing is the cleansing of all unrighteous, by the confession, which is in Christ Jesus and no more the prince of the power of the air, with his nature keeping us in sins and trespasses. That is why John can say 1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. Then in fulfilling this scripture he says, "1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no sin.
So we can say we no longer have the sin nature of our old man, which was Satan. We know have the sinless nature of our Father by Jesus Christ that is born again in us, because we believed God and not satan.
The life of the flesh is in the blood, but we are no longer in the flesh but in the spirit, that is if the Spirit of Christ dwell in you.
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Phl 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Is He come in the flesh? Yes, Jesus Christ is in the believer by His Spirit so we can say Abba Father, we are your son's by birth, not by creation. There is no blood here, except the blood left at the cross of our atonement.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.
That is why at resurrection we have been given the blessing of getting rid of our blood, for it cannot inter the Kingdom of our Dear Father and live in His House.
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of [his] time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
Is He come in your flesh? He has in mine. Amen.
Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Ephesians 2:4-6 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Quickened In Christ by the Blood of Christ: Phillip
_________________
Phillip
|
| | 2006/6/20 18:31 | Profile | dohzman
Member
Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132
| | Re: Oh simplicity , simplicity! | | The blood protected, when I plead something before God's throne I simply ask for mercy because of what Jesus has done on the cross. An example would be in an instant where I may be experiencing tremendous warfare, I go to the Lord and plead His Blood, in essence I am asking for His mercy and help for His names sake on account of what He has accomplished on the Cross. I believe the term originally was a cry for mercy and help. As believers we are hid in Christ, and in actual experience we need to often remind God to rember....the same way the psalmist did on many different promises(covenants). This is for our benefit not His. To cheapen the value of Christ's blood to protection of "things" , especially since Jesus said to lay not up for yourselves treasures on earth where moth and rust corrupts and the thief comes and steals...., is really to place a high premium on earthly treasures which is not really scriptural. To plead the Blood of Jesus over people? I have to agree with philogos, it seems that many want to use the things of God as magic charms. Isreal did that same thing with the brazen serpent keeping it in the temple and as part of thier worship long after its intended use. They totally missed the point, even after Jesus made referrence to it centuries latter.
We christians like to do the same today with our copy cat methods and formulas, Ron is right .... it's the eating of the Lamb that was the primary thing that worked with the blood on the posts, like Mary at Jesus feet that part will never be taken way. Now that's safe doctrine! :-)
_________________
D.Miller
|
| | 2006/6/20 19:53 | Profile |
| | Re: | | A Previous post:
Interesting topic..
I remember what Ravenhill said about waking up and pleading the blood over his boys to begin their day.
The old hymn says theres power in the blood!!
I plead the blood of Jesus everyday over my family....
Wether pentocastol or not I dont know.....maybe more mystical? I know theres awesome power in His blood...so I plead it!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Philologos posted:
Quote:
philologos wrote:
Quote:
As you will see in the next section, you can also Plead the Blood of Jesus on specific things like your body, your house, your car, your finances, etc. The goal is to Plead the Blood on those things in order to protect you before any kind of adversity should come your way.
This is really nonsense. We are drifting into the whole area of amulets and magic spells.
Quote:
I personally believe that the answer is yes, and that is why God the Father seems willing to honor any believer who will plead the blood on whatever he wants protection on before any attack can come their way just like He did in the story of the Passover with His own chosen people.
They never did plead the blood at the Passover. They daubed it over their doorposts and a testimony that the people on the inside were 'eating the Lamb'.
Quote:
Ex. 12:7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
Our job is to feed on the Lamb not to invent pointless traditions. The Passover is particularly significant in that the blood was a sign to defend them... not from the devil but from God!!
The 'blood' is our defence against a righteous wrath not against Satanic hosts.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Stever's conclusion:
Here, we see the difference. Ravenhill pleaded the blood for those he loved.
Ron (Philologos) & others on this thread not only see no value in the blood, they consider it to be akin to amulets and magic spells and hocus pokus.
In conclusion, each of us must ask ourselves, have we personally found value in pleading the blood when praying for the sick, or the lost, or anything?
I have found that pleading the blood of Jesus Christ is very effective. However, my faith is is grounded in the understanding that God can do anything. There is indeed power in the blood of Jesus Christ that I plead for others, as well as myself.
The Old Testament overflowed with the blood of unblemished animals, as a picture of the final sacrifice---the final passover. Jesus Christ was nailed on the cross on Thursday, the 14th of Abib, on the day of Passover feast, celebrated every year at 9:00 A.M. in the morning, the 3rd hour, at the time of the morning sacrifice. He gave up the ghost at 3:00 P.M., the 9th hour, the time of the evening sacrifice.Jesus Christ, is a total fulfillment for all of the Passover sacrifices, that were set up by God Himself in the Book of Exodus!
There is no remission without the shedding of blood. The sacrifices in the Old Testament covered the sin of man, while the final sacrifice in the New Testament took away the entire sin of man, for those that believe.
We have not heard about the miracles of healing and restoration from those that criticize pleading the blood, that pray for others without it, and the miracles of healing and salvation that they have experienced, and witnessed with their own eyes.
That would be a good thing to hear.
God bless,
Stever :-D
|
| | 2006/6/21 0:19 | |
| | Re: Pleading the blood? | | I feel the need to state clearly, that I do not like the phrase 'pleading the blood', I don't use the phrase and would not call the way I mention the blood when I do mention it in prayer 'pleading the blood'. Sometimes I use it as a way of referring to His death, at others, it would be a way of defining the power of His life. I think of Him as the Lamb, often.
philologos said Quote:
The value of the blood is the value of the life and the blood of Christ is precious because that life was poured out at Calvary.
I'm not sure if there is a difference between His life given up, and His death, yet, I'm sure a preacher might divide between these terms of reference with precision, depending on how the Spirit led him to speak.
It seems to me that our record of the disciples and apostles were all before the Revelation of Jesus Christ to John. It is since his recording of the worship in heaven 'Worthy is the Lamb that was slain', that Christians have picked up this terminology, to allude to the death of Christ, even though it must have been abundantly clear to those who believed He was the Messiah, that He was fulfilling the Old Covenant - if not before His death, certainly after He had expounded the scriptures to them after His resurrection.
The first apostles already had experience from His lifetime on earth, of all the deliverances and healings which they could now [i]still[/i] 'perform', since they had been baptised in the Spirit. They were used to using His Name. They carried on using His Name. This was a culturally recognised way of identifying whom they followed, which is less familiar to western thinking today, but which, because of the way God's truth was embedded in that eastern culture, it is a way of thinking which we must adopt.
Surely all of us, by taking His Name, are taking His shed blood and the efficacy of His death to us personally, as a matter of history, into the benefit of which we each have stepped through the Spirit?
EDIT: John 10
11 "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.
18 "No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father." |
| | 2006/6/21 4:54 | | Christinyou
Member
Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.
| | Re: | | Psalms 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
Isaiah 1:11-15 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts? Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting. Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them. And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
Steve, do you truly think that when you bring up the subject of The Blood of Christ that He is pleased. He hates blood shed and sacrifice but it was the only way He could get what He wanted and that was son's that would obey Him.
Do you really think the pleading of the blood makes God happy in what you ask. You want signs, wonders, miracles, protection from the enemy, salvation in pleading the blood. God says all you have to do is believe On the Name of Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Then He is our righteousness, not by the help of pleading the blood but by the Christ that is in you that shed that blood for your life. It pleased God to bruise His Own Son for our iniquities, but the sky turned black and the temple curtain to the Holy of Holies was wrent. I don't think God is going to reward those that killed Him. Pleading His blood just keeps it before the Presence of God. It is His Son's obedience to death of the Cross that pleases Him. It is the life of Christ in us that makes us righteous, redeemed, wisdom and also sanctification, not pleading His blood. It is Christ in us that is the Hope of Glory. Not the pleading of the blood. I think you would do better to plead the life of Christ in you and live unto The Commandment of Love and obedience by His life that is in us. Not the pleading of the blood to get what you want.
Christ's death and the shed blood is the first thing we must see in our salvation and how much it cost to save us. We must go on to the life of Christ and asking anything that is His will and it will be given. Not the pleading of the blood.
Lets not cheapen the blood by using it to get what we want.
In the power of the Life of Christ in us: Phillip
In Christ: Phillip
_________________
Phillip
|
| | 2006/6/21 5:53 | Profile |
|
