SermonIndex Audio Sermons
SermonIndex - Promoting Revival to this Generation
Give To SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : The "Glory Departed" (The 'Betrayal of the Ages' III)

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 Next Page )
PosterThread
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

CAN FAITH BE 'FAITH' WITHOUT OBEDIENCE?

We hear a lot in reformed circles about 'works' and how we are not saved by 'works'. This is clearly true as we find in Ephesians 2:8.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;(Titus 3:5)

The Jews hold the tradition that God gave Noah 7 laws called the 'Noahchide laws' after the flood. Then on Sinai God gave to Moses the 10 Words or the Decalogue. We know them as the 10 Commandments. In time the whole Torah (Pentateuch) was codified into 613 Laws. There were 365 'dont's' (1 for each day of the week) and 248 'do's'. On top of this was added a 'fence' of Oral Traditions that eventually became the Talmud. The Jews also believe in what are known as acts of tzedikah (righteous deeds). These were charitable deeds that had various levels of sincerity: therefore they were [i]meritorious[/i]. Some are considered more meritorious than others. The Talmud describes several different levels of tzedakah and they have been organized into a basic list. From the least meritorious to the most meritorious, the list is as follows:

1. Giving begrudgingly
2. Giving less that you should, but giving it cheerfully.
3. Giving after being asked
4. Giving before being asked
5. Giving when you do not know the recipient's identity, but the recipient knows your identity
6. Giving when you know the recipient's identity, but the recipient doesn't know your identity
7. Giving when neither party knows the other's identity
8. Enabling the recipient to become self-reliant

Notice that these are said to be 'meritorious'. According to Jewish tradition, the spiritual benefit of giving charity is so great that the giver benefits even more than the recipient. By giving charity, Jews recognize the good that God has given to them. Some Jewish scholars see charitable donation as a replacement for animal sacrifice in Jewish life in that it is a way to show thanks to and ask forgiveness from God. Contributing toward the welfare of others is a central and fulfilling part of one's Jewish identity. (Lisa Katz, A Guide To Judaism).

It is easy to see how confusion has entered the Body of Christ on the matter of 'works'. The problem is, that folk have learned to take the book and discard God Himself. Religion has been defined as [i]worship in the absence of God[/i]. When a person takes the book, extrapolates all the commands and tries to carry them out, it is [i]religion[/i]. A person can do this and be in direct rebellion against God. [u]'Work's' are acts in the absence of the leading and empowerment of the Holy Spirit.[/u] A person can actually be keeping the traditions and laws real good and yet still be [i][u]resisting[/u] the Holy Ghost[/i]. This is what Stephen said and was stoned to death for. The people had shut God out and tried to keep the covenant. When the Temple was destroyed they started a process of improvising to compensate for God's destroying the mean's of facilitating their religion.

Getting back in a right standing with God is not accomplished by getting together a host of things that one may think God will 'accept' as substitute for their disobedience. This is Cain. This is Saul. This is rebellion.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2006/6/24 14:23Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

THE DANGER OF DISOBEDIENCE

And Samuel said, "Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, He hath also rejected thee from being king."

Saul rejected what He knew were direct orders from God. The prophet had given him clear direction and Saul chose, rather, to resist God's command and rebel against God's authority. Notice three words in our passage:

stubbornness
rebellion
rejected

'Rejected' is what God said Saul had done to the 'word of the Lord.' It is interesting to note that there is an axiom here if we look closely: [i]God will receive us as we receive His word.[/i] It seems evident that God will respond to us proportionally to how we respond to His known will. God is no respector of persons and these things are written for our examples and for our admonishion. They are warnings to us of how we ought to obey the Lord.

Matthew Henry comments here on Saul's judgment: "He reads his doom: in short, [i]"Because thou has rejected the word of the Lord, hast despised it (so the Chaldee), hast made nothing of it (so the LXX.), hast cast off the government of it, therefore he has rejected thee, despised and made nothing of thee.[/i]"

God made Saul a King and he [u]'UN-made'[/u] Saul a King. This is a most fearful and solemn consideration. We are King's and Priests unto God. We are cut-out to be a Kingdom of Priests who demonstrate to the world the majesty of God. What signal hath the world from a disobedient and gainsaying people? Does it not say that the God of Glory is safe to trifle with?

And Samuel said unto Saul, "I will not return with thee; for thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, and the LORD hath rejected thee from being king over Israel." And as Samuel turned about to go away, he laid hold upon the skirt of his mantle, and it rent. And Samuel said unto him, "The LORD hath rent the kingdom of Israel from thee this day, and hath given it to a neighbor of thine, who is better than thou. And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent; for He is not a man, that He should repent."

It is a fearful thing that believers in our times mistake works for obedience. When we know our Lord's will and the Holy Spirit has confirmed it in our hearts it is not 'works' to be obedient, it is faith and that faith is not faith without [i]obedience[/i]. Can faith be expressed in disobedience?





_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2006/6/24 14:46Profile
mamaluk
Member



Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524


 Re:

RobertW,

Absolutely not! Faith can not be expressed in disobedience, that's mere imagination.

Living in the days described here in:
2 Timothy 3:2
"For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy."
Works produced with these qualifications are nothing but evil works.

'Works' produced by the flesh (old-nature) tend only to gratify self-esteem in man. Francis Schaeffer was very clear when he said that doing the works of God in the flesh, those works are simply the works of the flesh no less.

A person walks into an average church these days is told to:

1. Believe (whatever they want them to believe)
2. Get water-baptized
3. Pick up some ministry

One is seldom reinforced with the importance of studying and learning Christ through the entire Bible. I mean, the ENTIRE Bible.

Reading your posts remind me of how important it is to study and re-study the Old Testament ( along with the New Testament )on a life long basis. Because its often the Words in the OT that reveal to us what our GOD is like, what truly pleases HIM and what causes HIM anger etc... I mean the ability to know GOD's true attributes.

'Free' grace (in my mind, which is so costly to our Christ) and emotional love have been bombarded to the extent where holiness, obedience and diligence in studying the WORD in relating to faith have been mostly tossed out.

Christians must study the ENTIRE Bible, through and through, day by day, year after year,this, in itself, is serving GOD, along with prayers, these are essential works. A partial knowledge of the written WORD could only produce partial faith in the living WORD.

Thankyou RobertW,
still needing to learn more,
mamaluk

 2006/6/24 15:33Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Hi Mamaluk,

Amen. Makes me think of the hymn:

TRUST AND OBEY

When we walk with the Lord in the light of His Word,
What a glory He sheds on our way!
While we do His good will, He abides with us still,
And with all who will trust and obey.

Refrain

Trust and obey, for there’s no other way
To be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey.

Not a shadow can rise, not a cloud in the skies,
But His smile quickly drives it away;
Not a doubt or a fear, not a sigh or a tear,
Can abide while we trust and obey.

Refrain

Not a burden we bear, not a sorrow we share,
But our toil He doth richly repay;
Not a grief or a loss, not a frown or a cross,
But is blessed if we trust and obey.

Refrain

[u]But we never can prove the delights of His love
Until all on the altar we lay;[/u]
For the favor He shows, for the joy He bestows,
Are for them who will trust and obey.

Refrain

Then in fellowship sweet we will sit at His feet.
Or we’ll walk by His side in the way.
What He says we will do, where He sends we will go;
Never fear, only trust and obey.

Refrain


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2006/6/26 7:49Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

I found this little history of "Trust and Obey" written by John Henry Sammis (1846-1919).

A business man and YMCA worker in Logans port, Indiana, Sammis attended McCormick and Lane Theological Seminaries, was ordained a Presbyterian minister in 1880. He served in Glidden, Iowa; Indianapolis, Indiana; Grand haven, Michigan, Red Wing, Minnesota; and Sullivan, Indiana. For the remainder of his career, he taught at the Bible Institute of Los Angeles.

"Trust and Obey"

This song gives a simple, clear explanation of living the Christian life. The title expression was used in a testimony meeting, following an evangelistic crusade in Brockton, Massachusetts, by Dwight L. Moody. A young man stood to speak, and it soon became clear he knew little Christian doctrine. But he finished by saying, “I’m not quite sure—but I’m going to trust, and I’m going to obey.” Daniel Towner, who was in the meeting, jotted down the words, and gave them to John Sammis, who developed the lyrics from them.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2006/6/26 7:57Profile
mamaluk
Member



Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524


 Re:

Robert W,

Too weird, this song came to my mind when I was posting that !

How much have these verses been proving themselves, over and over again. GOD repeatedly told us in:

Proverbs 16:2
All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes
Proverbs 12:15
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes
Proverbs 21:2
Every way of a man is right in his own eyes

How sad but true,even of myself.

I was a fool for the longest time, in my younger days as a churchian, having only zeal but no knowledge of HIS Word.Nor did I even care. Running around ''churches'', serving these "pastors" with the utmost enthusiasm and reverence. The more I 'served", the less I could care reading the Bible. The more prideful I became! Understanding the Bible in bits and pieces, and even tried to correct others at times with them , picking and choosing my pet verses,just to gratify my desire, thinking to myself that the OT was completely irrelevant,except when I needed the Psalms to comfort me!! Wasn't I outrageously irreverent to God??

Unbelievable, from hindsight, I wonder if I was really a true "Christian" at all, but for HIS grace.

Praise our living WORD for every jot and tittle in the written WORD , Christ Jesus! Thank GOD so much for the shed Blood!

Thanks RobertW, I could definitely use more encouragement from OT expositions.

mamaluk

 2006/6/26 10:14Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

THE DANGER OF SINNING PERSISTENTLY

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,(Jude 24)

Our text describes the power of God to keep the regenerate from falling with a simple word, 'able.' It is important to break through a barrier of mind that would cause one to think it necessary for them to have some 'sin' in their life at all times. Our Lord is 'able' to do exceeding and abundantly above all that we are able to ask or think according to the power that works in us. If we 'sin' it is not God's fault and it is not because He had no power to keep us from falling.

I first wish to examine what is likely one of the most strict teachers, Charles G. Finney's concept of persisting in sin by looking at what he says 'persisting in sin' is [u]not[/u].

[i]1. To persist in sin is, not to abandon it. If a person should only [u]occasionally[/u], under the force of temptation, fall into a sin, any form of sin, and should repent and abandon it for a time, and should only [u]occasionally[/u] be overcome by a temptation to commit that form of sin, it would not be proper to say that he persisted in it. For, according to this supposition, he is not wilful, or obstinate (stubbornly refusing to change), or habitual in the commission of this sin; but it is rather accidental in the sense that the temptation sometimes overtakes and overcomes him notwithstanding his habitual (a consistent pattern) abandonment of it and resistance to it. But if the commission be habitual, a thing allowed, a thing indulged in habitually--such a sin is persisted in.[/i] (Oberlin Evangelist 9/11/1861)

I wish next to give some synonyms for 'occasionally'.

Occasionally:

I have coffee with dinner 'sometimes', from time to time, (every) now and then, (every) now and again, at times, every so often, (every) once in a while, on occasion; periodically, at intervals; irregularly, sporadically, infrequently, intermittently, on and off, off and on.

Our passage states that God is 'able' to keep us from falling. This is perpetual power. Falling into some sin invariably comes as the result of refusing to remain submitted to God. [i][u]Submit[/u] yourselves therefore unto God, [u]resist[/u] the devil and he will flee from you. [/i] (James 4:7) The sin itself is merely a symptom of the problem, and that problem is refusal to submit. This is a most critical truth for Christians to grasp as they must fully submit to the Lordship of Christ or they are especially vulnerable to the temptations of the enemy.

Do you recall our Lord when He was fasting for 40 days in the wilderness? The enemy came and tempted Him to make the stones into bread. What was His response? Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. This has a most simple meaning; eating is optional, submitting to God is [i]not[/i]. This must reign supreme as the highest priority of life to which everything else must submit. Submission to God is the conerstone of all of our decisions. Once that is established defeating the enemy is as simple as [i]resisting[/i] him. The tempter flees when a believer is submitted to God and resists him. You can resist from now on and the temptor will continue his attack until you decide to submit to God. Without submission to God, there is nothing to brace yourself against except your own sheer will power. When we are submitted to God [i]fully[/i] the finger of God is never far and the enemy flees when we resist.

If we sin persistently then we are succumbing to temptation persistently. If we are succumbing to temptation persistently we are not submitted to God on a persistent basis. As the devil told the 7 sons of Sceva; Paul I know and Jesus I know, but who are you? It is folly to expect the devil to submit to God in leaving off tempting us when were not submitted to God ourselves. The enemy just says in effect, "Why should I have to submit to God, you're [i]not[/i]." This is the lesson the sons of Sceva learned.

This is where the enemy wants us. He wants us to get a 'taste' of sin so that we enjoy what we 'tasted'. If he accomplishes that then we sort of 'befriend' that thing. An affinity develops that has a devastating effect. First, because it is sin God will not tolerate it. Second, it is impossible to love God and some 'sin' at the same time. God refered to Israel's sin sometimes as a 'lover'. This is part of the cycle to the intent that you or I will cease from submitting to God. Once that beachhead is established then there is no basis upon which we can resist the devil and every time he comes around with his temptation, there is a fall. The sin becomes 'habitual.'

This is where repentance comes in. There has to be a re-establishment of our complete submission to God. It is then and only then that we can remain safe from the temptations of the enemy. Subtle feelings of rebellion and self-will emurge as we are allured away and enticed. Turn from those things before they capture just enough of your affections that you waver in your submission to God. That is what the enemy wants, that is how he makes you vulnerable. He is challenging your submission to God.





_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2006/6/27 8:42Profile
mamaluk
Member



Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524


 Re:

"If we sin persistently then we are succumbing to temptation persistently. If we are succumbing to temptation persistently we are not submitted to God on a persistent basis."

Sounds like a growing cancer...

sigh..thanks

 2006/6/27 10:50Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

THE BOOK OF JUDGMENT

In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes. (Judges 17:6, 21:25)

When I think of the book of Judges I think of judgment. I think of a people who were set-apart to be God's revelation of Himself in the earth, who are now mixing the things of God with the pagan idolatry of the former inhabitants of the land. Page after page, account after account of disaster and victory. [i]In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.[/i] To read this passage one would almost get the idea that if there is no king then the people will do what [i]they[/i] wish. God wanted to be their King, but there existed a people that needed constant micromanagement. This was not a new problem, it manifested when Moses went up on the mount and the people desired a Golden Calf. And this is a most vexing thing in our times, is there a people that will serve God if there is none to 'prod' them along?

It is a most juvenile character trait. It is evidence that one has yet to understand their need to act rightly [i]because it is the right thing to do.[/i] The KJV uses a word "eye-service" to describe a people that have this character trait. In other words, "I will serve if the 'eye' is on me." When the 'eye' is not on them, they will do what is right in their 'own eyes.'

I recall a saying of Jonathan Edwards that was actually part of a prayer he prayed to God before he preached the message 'Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God', that said to the effect, "let eternity be in my eyes." This resonates back to a saying in the Old Testament "before the eyes." One of the indictments God has leveled upon man is that there is "no fear of God before their eyes." In other words they do not 'see' it or if we might say the fear of God is not factored in to their actions.

There is another word that fits in at this point and it is the word [i]conscientious[/i]. Not in the sense that one just wants to do a good job, but one in which the conscience is allowed to speak into the person's life continually. A person living in 'eye-service' is not conscientious. There is a saying among those who scoff at the trafic laws in our area, "No Cop- no Stop." This is the feeling I get reading this passage... [i]In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.[/i]






_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2006/6/28 8:03Profile
mamaluk
Member



Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524


 Re:


Revelation 22:20
He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come [b]quickly[/b]. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

May God judge,even me!

In Christ, Praise thine cleansing Blood!



 2006/6/29 12:04Profile





©2002-2024 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Revival to this Generation.
Privacy Policy