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Joined: 2006/4/5
Posts: 24
Hull, East Yorkshire, England

 Will some be reigning while others aren't?

2 Timothy 2:11-13 (New King James Version)

11 This is a faithful saying:

For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
12 If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.
13 If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself.

I recently received John Bevere's monthly magazine, and was curious about his statements regarding our destiny in Christ, particularly in relation to our achievements/fruit/choices in this life.

This has been a real issue for me for years, and I was more than a little unsettled by what I read. Unfortunately I am not able to quote him word-for-word, so I can only give an impression of what I can remember him saying.

Basically, he seems to believe that there will be some of us who will be reigning with Christ, i.e. those who fulfill God's call on their life and invest their lives in the Kingdom of God, and others who will not(on a par with those who escape judgment as from a burning building:

14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

1 Corinthians 3:14-16 (New King James Version))

I find John Bevere's comments both confusing (in the light of the Bible reference at the beginning of the post), and more than a little unsettling (frightening, actually) - not because I'm living in deliberate sin, but because I'm not sure (how can we be?) that the fruit in my life is what Jesus is looking for. The reference in 2 Timothy says those who endure will reign with Christ, and leaves it at that. I would think that, according to the popular concept of the church being the Bride of Christ, it would be more than a little odd if the Bride would have some parts reigning with Him, and others not. I feel I can do no more than just seek to love the Lord with all my heart, and obey His Word and leading as best I can. Surely, if I'm as sure as John Bevere is that my works are acceptable, I run the risk of becoming Pharasaical, and falling into pride. However, I don't want to live in the constant fear that I am going to miss out on blessings in heaven that I had the opportunity to secure in this life.

Can anyone throw any light on this for me?

Dom Spencer

Dominic Spencer

 2006/4/26 8:38Profile

Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619

 Re: Will some be reigning while others aren't?

I think the most profound work on this subject is "The Jugdement seat of Christ" By D. M. Panton.

What is brought out is the very clear distinction in the New Testament beween the Jugdement seat of Christ and the Great White throne Judgement.

And the Judgement seat of Christ is at the Lord's return and related to His Mellinial Kingdom with a view to rewards and dicipline for beleivers.

Romans 8:16,17 says" The Spirit Himself witnesses with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs also, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ if so be that we suffer with Him in order that we might be glorified with Him."

To be a child of God is to have His Life and to be an heir of God. All believers who have the Life of God Have eternal Life because His Life is eternal.

But not all believers will reign with Christ in His Kingdom. That is, the Kingdom is a reward to those beleivers who have matured in Christ, not just who have oil (The Spirit) but whose vessels are full, those who have been faithful, who have delt with their fellow believers according to His Grace, and who have not been slothful, burried their talent, but who have pressed on, matured, run the race, fought a good fight, and run their course.

But for the rest, though they be heirs of God in the Eternal Age, members of the new Jerusalem, and possesors of Eternal Life, the carnal, soulish, slothful, disobediant, believer will not be rewarded with "reigning with Christ" but will be diciplined outside the Kingdom.

And only those whose vessels are full will be admitted to the "marriage supper of the Lamb" though in the end all will be diciplined, matured, perfected and a part of the New Jerusalem which is the Bride of Christ and the wife of the Lamb for eternity, only those who have been so in this age will share in the Lord's glory in the comming age of the Kingdom which is not the eternal age but the mellinial Kingdom.


 2006/4/26 20:35Profile

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Will some be reigning while others aren't?

Hi Dom,

Not as a statement per se, but just to think on;

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

Mat 19:27-30

Mike Balog

 2006/4/26 23:51Profile

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