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roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: What kingdom do we defend

Quote:
Of course the only real security we have is in christ, everything else is vanity.



Amen to that! The nation of Israel found that to be true - over and over again. As long as they trusted God he kept them safe from enemies. However, whenever they strayed, God himself brought enemies against him, as well as pestilence and famine. However, the good news about God's judgments is that he always extended mercy - and that is the same good news for today - God's salvation!

I find it interesting that no where in the Bible is there a case of enemies arising except that permitted by God. Do you think that is still true today?

Quote:
Islam is a deadly threat anybody who doesnt believe in Allah.


I don't want to "put words in your mouth", but are you meaning to say: "Islam is a deadly threat to anyone who doesn't trust in God" ?

"For in all things we are more than conquorers through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life.... nor any powers.... will be able to separate us from the love of God..." Romans 8:37

It is a great comfort to know that God is still the ruler of the universe, though it often doesn't seem like it. He relentlessly continues to build his eternal kingdom - amidst all the earthly turmoils.
And that is the only kingdom that really matters in the long run. Because that is the kingdom his children belong to - forever.

Quote:
When I said that the US is taking appropriate steps to secure itself, I mean for the safety of the Americans Physically. Not spiritually.


I appreciate your clarification. Jesus said, "What good is it to gain the whole world and forfeit your soul". I can't help but wonder (I speak generally), Does the pursuit of temporal security come with a price-tag - we forfeit our very souls? Do we forfeit God's eternal promises?

Just something to think about....

This is serious stuff.
Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/4/22 6:18Profile
boomatt
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Joined: 2006/3/20
Posts: 235
fredericksburg, Virginia

 Re:

Thanks Diane for your post. Sorry I dont make myself clear sometimes.

It has been great getting everyones input, and you all have a blessed day in the lord.


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Matt Kroelinger

 2006/4/22 9:04Profile
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Chris

Quote:
Why did I vote for President Bush? Because of the issues that were listed in my previous post below. Do I believe that he is a Christian? That is not my call. In fact, I cannot judge that he is -- or isn't.



this is the topic of the whole discussion: what sort of fruit grow on ths Bush :-P ok i had to throw that in there, but seriously what sort of fruit is he producing? When one makes the claim to be a Christian those of us who are have to check the fruit to see if it is true. As Christians we have to judge ourselves and eachother so that if the fruit are bad, those branches can be cut off or even uproot the whole tree.

this whole situation and the one brewing with iran is going to leave us in a lot of trouble. a judgement from heaven will come through this mess so we need to get our houses in order before the Lord because our nation as we know it will cease to exist when the Lord is done with it. When this happens our true or false Christianity will be exposed because Christianity is proved in the fire of adversity and that fire is coming. so mnay saints i talk to think it's going to be peace and safety but i hear from heaven a sudden and utter destruction coming and i see and feel the urgency for repentance, yet the saints are just coasting along for the most part :-?

for those that would REPENT, REPENT, REPENT OR DIE!!!


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Farai Bamu

 2006/4/22 11:16Profile
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

Bro Boomatt said

Quote:
Of course the only real security we have is in christ, everything else is vanity. Islam is a deadly threat anybody who doesnt believe in Allah.



amen bro! brethren what's so scary about death though?


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Farai Bamu

 2006/4/22 11:20Profile
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

sis diane
you're off into some deep waters here...

Quote:
I find it interesting that no where in the Bible is there a case of enemies arising except that permitted by God. Do you think that is still true today?



amen, the enemy can only do what he is allowed by heaven and no enemy may be raised up against anyone lest heaven allows it first, ie nothing happens outside the will of God, He is not taken by surprise.

Quote:
I appreciate your clarification. Jesus said, "What good is it to gain the whole world and forfeit your soul". I can't help but wonder (I speak generally), Does the pursuit of temporal security come with a price-tag - we forfeit our very souls? Do we forfeit God's eternal promises?



this is a sobering question. it makes you think about all the times we retaliate to attack reflexively without giving thought to the fact that it may be a judgment and there is something to be repented from. Sometimes we need to call a solemn assembly and fall on our faces before God. i wonder sometimes how it would have been had such an assembly been called by the president after 9/11. when we do pursue our own preservation or secutiry by our own means without trusting God we show lack of Faith in Him and without faith it is impossible to please Him. it seems that this opens a can of worms...


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/4/22 11:31Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Brother Matt wrote:

Quote:
The threat of Islam will take years to erase, if not impossible. It takes much needed education in that area, unfortunately, I dont believe they will be taught christ.



Brother Rahman suggested that I read this book:

All the Shah’s Men, An American Coup and the Roots of Middle East Terror
By Stephen Kinzer

In Chapter two, this author covers the roots of the religion of Shiite Islam. I just read this this morning and it will take 4 or 5 posts to develop the whole thought for the statement you made above.

After reading this chapter you will know why the Shiite Muslim posses such a threat to the nations seeking oil. You will see why the current administration might even use nuclear weapons to bring about their will on this nation...

Page 18

Many countries in the Middle East are artificial creations. European colonialists drew their national borders in the nineteenth or twentieth century, often with little regard for local history and tradition, and their leaders have had to concoct outlandish myths in order to give citizens a sense of nationhood. Just the opposite is true of Iran. This is one of the world’s oldest nations, heir to a tradition that reaches back thousands of years, to periods when great conquerors extended their rule across continents, poets and artists created works of exquisite beauty, and one of the world’s most extraordinary religious traditions took root and flowered. Even in modern times, which have been marked by long periods of anarchy, repression, and suffering, Iranians are passionately inspired by their heritage.

Great themes run through Iranian history and shape it to this day. One is the continuing and often frustrating effort to find a synthesis between Islam, which was imposed on the country by Arab conquerors, and the rich heritage of pre-Islamic times. Another, fueled by the Shiite Muslim tradition to which most Iranians now belong, is the thirst for just leadership, of which they have enjoyed precious little. A third, also sharpened by Shiite beliefs, is a tragic view of life rooted in a sense of martyrdom and communal pain. Finally, Iran has since time immemorial been a target of foreign invaders, victim of a geography that places it astride some of the world’s most important trading routes and atop an ocean of oil, and it has struggled to find a way to live with powerful outsiders. All these strains combined in the middle of the twentieth century to produce and then destroy the towering figure of Mohammad Mossadegh.

Migrants from Central Asia and the Indian subcontinent began arriving in what is now Iran nearly four thousand years ago, pushed out by a combination of resource depletion and marauding tribes from the north and east. Among them were the Aryans, from whose name the word Iran is taken. The emperor who united these gifted visionaries and the figure who first conceived the idea of an empire based in the region known as Pars (later Fars).

After rising to power in 559 BC., Cyrus, launched a brilliant campaign that brought other leaders on the vast Iranian plateau under his sway. Some he conquered, but many he won to his side by persuasion and compromise. Today he is remembered for his conquests but also for the relative gentleness with which he treated his subjects. He understood that this was an even surer way to build a durable empire than the more common means of oppression, terror, and slaughter.

In 547 Cyrus marched into Asia Minor and captured the majestic Lydian capital of Sardis. Seven years later he subdued the other great regional power, Babylon. Over the decades that followed, he and his successors went on to more great victories, including one by Xerxes in which Macedon, Thermopylae, and Athens were taken by an army of 180000 men, by far the largest seen in Europe up to that time. This dynasty, known as the Achaemenians, built the greatest empire of its era. By 500 B.C., it embraced the eastern Mediterranean from Greece through modern-day Turkey, Lebanon, Israel, Egypt, and Libya and stretched eastward across the Caucasus to the banks of the Indus. Cyrus called it Persia because it sprang from his own base in Pars.

The tolerant and all-embracing approach to life and politics for which Achaemenian emperors were known sprang in part from their connection to the Zoroastrian faith, which holds that the sacred responsibility of every human being is to work toward establishing social justice on earth. Zoroastrians believe that humanity is locked in an eternal struggle between good and evil. Theirs is said to have been the first revealed religion to preach that people must face judgment after death, and that each soul will spend eternity in either paradise or perdition. According to its precepts, God makes his judgment according to how virtuous one has been in life, measured by one’s thoughts, words, and deeds. The prophet Zoroaster, later known to Europeans as Zarathustra, lived sometime between the tenth and seventh centuries B.C. in what is now northeastern Iran, and preached this creed after a series of divine visions. Zoroastrianism has had a profound effect on Persian history not simply because Cyrus used it in his audaciously successful campaign of empire-building, but because it has captured the hearts of so many believers over the course of so many centuries

to be continued...

As you read this snapshot of Iranian history, meditate on the Scriptures which speak of this time...

Sister Diane has established the biblical view that Christians should realize...

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/4/22 11:47Profile
boomatt
Member



Joined: 2006/3/20
Posts: 235
fredericksburg, Virginia

 Re:

Hi rookie,

What are your current views on Iran?

If they still persue a nuclear program,and continue to threaten Israel, would you advocate disarming them?

Here is a little something I found:

Iran, Israel, Russia, United States This Week Have Lept Toward Ezekiel 38

By Bill Wilson, KIN Senior Analyst - www.watch.org

Wash—Apr 19—KIN— So far this week, Iran, Russia, the United States, Syria, the Palestinian Authority and Israel have taken monumental steps toward prophetic fulfillment of the Ezekiel 38 prophecy where Gog, Magog, Persia, Libya, Ethopia and other nations of the world come, as it says in verse 16, "against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land."

Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad gave a clue to his so-called peaceful nuclear program by saying that Iran's army will "serve peace and security for mankind especially the region and its neighbors." And he said that Iran stands ready to employ its technology and manpower to "cut the hand of any aggressor" who threatens it. In the past, Ahmadinejad has said that he would use nuclear power to bring about peace. The type of peace Ahmadinejad has in mind is the peace that comes after all the world submits to the Iranian Islamic authority.

Israel's Ambassador to the United Nations, Dan Gillerman, told the international body that the actions of Iran, Syria and the Palestinian Authority amount to "clear declarations of war." Gillerman said, "A dark cloud is looming above our region, and it is metastasizing as a result of the statements and actions by leaders of Iran, Syria, and the newly elected government of the Palestinian Authority." And President George W. Bush, in response to a question whether he is considering a nuclear strike in response to Iran, replied, "All options are on the table. We want to solve this issue diplomatically and we're working hard to do so."

The rhetoric from all sources has amplified since Monday's Hamas-supported terrorist attack in Tel Aviv. Russian Foreign Ministry Spokesman Mikhail Kamynin said "We resolutely and unconditionally condemn this bloody attack by extremists who again are raising their hands against innocent people." But the Russian response called those involved in the terror attack "extremists," ignoring the fact that the Hamas leadership unconditionally supported the Tel Aviv attack. Palestinian terrorists later demanded an apology from the Palestinian Authority's President Mahmoud Abbas, who condemned the attacks.

Last week, Iran's Ahmadinejad called Israel a "rotten, dried tree" that will be annihilated by "one storm." And he previously said Israel should be "wiped off the map." Each of these nations this week have advanced into the end times as if they had no choice and no indicator that they were moving in that direction. As the Lord says in Ezekiel 38:4, "I will turn you back and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you forth, and all your army." These current events are moving with amazing speed toward prophetic fulfillment. And the things prophesied may well happen "before your eyes" as the Lord says in Ezekiel 38:16, "that the heathen may know me." You might wake up one day and see it. Are you prepared?


Peace be with you all!
Boomatt


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Matt Kroelinger

 2006/4/22 12:12Profile
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Boomatt
Iran is going to be a big issue, or should i say it already is. i was listening to Art Katz speaking about Ezekiel, the prophet of resurrection and in this he speaks of the need for the death of the nation of israel as we know it. The current state is jewish in name only for the most part, practising the jewish faith and yet like their ancestors having no true reverence for God but just going through the motions, kinda like how we are as the Church. now i'm not sure if iran will be the tool the Lord uses to bring this death about such that the result will be a people who return with contrition to God and repent. Most call themselves israeli as opposed to israelites and the capital right now is tel-aviv as opposed to Jerusalem, when Christ returns He'll be coming back to Jerusalem.

this is all very interesting, the times we're living in and all these goings on. the persians have a role to play in all this and it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/4/22 12:49Profile
boomatt
Member



Joined: 2006/3/20
Posts: 235
fredericksburg, Virginia

 Re:

This truly is a scrary time

I think I have a pretty good signature. We need to be in constant prayer for Israel.

I find Joel 3:2 to be a pretty scary prophecy for the future. Notice how it says He will Gather ALL NATIONS.


god bless


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Matt Kroelinger

 2006/4/22 13:18Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4527


 Pruners of the Vine...?

Hi IRONMAN...

Quote:
this is the topic of the whole discussion: what sort of fruit grow on ths Bush ok i had to throw that in there, but seriously what sort of fruit is he producing? When one makes the claim to be a Christian those of us who are have to check the fruit to see if it is true. As Christians we have to judge ourselves and eachother so that if the fruit are bad, those branches can be cut off or even uproot the whole tree.

With all due respect, I don't think that it is possible for you to make such a "determination of fruit" by viewing the "fruit" as presented by a worldwide media that is obviously biased. Unless you really know this man (President Bush), do you feel comfortable enough to go around basing such judgment (or "fruit inspection") on the speculations or assumptions that are based primarily upon such a skewed reputation as presented by the media? This is the entire problem with most spiritual "fruit inspectors." Either they feel too determined to inspect fruit based upon their [i]own understanding[/i] or [i]perception[/i] of what "good fruit" and "bad fruit" is, or they are relying too much on "supernatural discernment" that is often anything but that!

Even though we are commended to "[i]know them by their fruit[/i]," is it really [u]our[/u] job to do the actual pruning? Would you feel safe enough to be the one holding the pruning tool? From what I understand from the Word, we are to do our best to determine the sheep from the goats, but it is the responsibility of the Son of Man to do the seperating (Matthew 25:31-33). I would not feel comfortable enough to do that. Yes, we are to seperate ourselves from this world -- but in a [i]spiritual[/i] sense.

As far as a "fear" of the end of America: Why should we worry? If we are walking with the Lord, it shouldn't matter what the outcome will be, because "[i]...to live is Christ, and to die is gain...[/i]" Jesus did not come to "take us out of this world" but to "protect" us from this world as we walk with Him (John 17:15). There are individuals that sometimes write troubling posts about believers "being deceived" by the anti-Christ before the Lord's return. But in reality, such warnings often come from believers that are upset that someone else doesn't buy into their particular beliefs about doctrine, views of physically-manifest holiness, or end-time prophecy. But if I am truly fellowshipping with the Lord, if I know His Word, and if I truly know and love His heart, and if the highlight of my life is to spend time with Him -- will I be so easily deceived?

As far the situation in Iran and Iraq is concerned, I believe that we are not to act us unwise in making assumptions about such issues. There are certainly many "armchair generals" that do not truly understand many of the deep and perplexing issues in this situation. Their research is confined to the internet and a certain selection of biased books. When I began my thesis research on the Iran Hostage Crisis, it was easy to distinguish [i]real[/i] sources from sources of obvious [i]bias[/i]. Unfortunately, it seems that many individuals have a difficult time with this concept. A biased work will often make a determination before the work is even begun. This is true with everything -- not just issues of faith, doctrine or even foreign policy.

Is President Bush a Christian? Like I said before, that is not my call to make. He openly claims to be one. Even though some question his policy decisions, the President seems quite sincere. He has acted upon certain issues (like abortion, stem cell research, etc...), that haven't made him very popular. Yes, there are certain things that can be determined by his actions. But his salvation? Besides, most of what we “know” is from skewed reports. And aren’t you glad that people don’t “inspect” our fruit by what others say about us? And more importantly, aren’t you glad that people are not trying to prune us from the vine due to our apparent faults?

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2006/4/22 14:49Profile





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