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 Re: Protests at funerals

Pretty BIZARRE stuff if you ask me. Quite judgemental. The root to the akward hate is the belief that God hates certain sinners and therefore is gonna PUNISH the whole country and KILL soldiers. How unlike the God we know, who is Love. God is not a terrorist last time i checked, who haunts the funerals of the grieving, and pours scorn on the dead. Hurricanes? Is'nt it "God is not willing that any man perish"? God is not a grumpy old man seeking to destroy, but to save. Pray for those people who are mis-representing His true Nature.

 2006/4/18 18:49









 Re:

Quote:
Hurricanes? Is'nt it "God is not willing that any man perish"? God is not a grumpy old man seeking to destroy, but to save.



Well, as much as God is a God of love, he is a God of justice and wrath as well. He does pour out judgement upon nations, and is doing so on America. I think it is not "wrong" to think that Katrina, 9/11, and so forth could've been judgements brought on by God in the sense that he did not stop it, he allowed it to take place when he could've very well stopped it. However America isn't in His will anymore, so he has no reason to.

God is willing that none should perish, of course, but remember Sodom and Gomorrah? God is a God of righteous judgement.

But the way that the Phelps family is communicating this is just vile. You should not hurl insults at sinners like Phelps does by calling them derogatory names. There is a way, in loving-kindness, to communicate the righteousness and judgements of our Holy God.

Think of Paul when he went into Athens.

Jordan

 2006/4/18 19:10
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

brethren
i think the manner in which this family is going about this is questionable but it has caused us to examine ourselves in the light of God. We must sift through all this so we can find the diamonds in the muck, we miss out on so much because we don't like the messenger or the message is delivered in an offensive way and we don't take the time to examine it in the light of God to see what we ought to keep and what we should discard. however i agree with Chris' statement that it would be lamentable if the Lord would use the heathen to preach against His Church...just like He used the Babylonians long ago to smash Israel...

let it be known that God the Father will put a hurt on you if He feels it necessary and has decided to do so, He's not a teddy-bear but a God of justice. Some may find it hard to reconcile a blanket judgement on a nation but then also the rain does fall on the heathen and the righteous alike. the Lord takes the matter of our salvation seriously, so much so that nothing less than the blood of Christ could secure it so you best believe that we need to be serious about the Faith unto death if necessary.

if indeed the Lord is using people such as these to call the Church out (hey He used an ass to speak before) then we're really in over our heads. Lord help us!AMEN.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/4/18 21:04Profile









 Re:

Ironman,

Quote:
if indeed the Lord is using people such as these to call the Church out (hey He used an ass to speak before) then we're really in over our heads.



I would like to ask you to reconsider. These people are not of God.

Here is a post someone made two years ago, in SermonIndex concerning the "Godhatesfags.com" group:

Quote:
My church has a ministry designed to help new Christians change their ways, i.e. help against alcoholism, drug addiction, pornography, and homosexuality. Recently, my church was picketed by a hate group, Godhatesfags.com, that said that our pastor and all our members were going to burn in hell for all eternity because we have a ministry to help reform people who are caught up in homosexuality. They brought large, brightly-coloured signs with very offensive slogans and pictures, and shouted extremely hateful things at us.

Their reasoning behind this is that homosexuals cannot be saved, nor can any sinners. It is the (disputable) doctrine of absolute predestination taken to the extreme. Therefore they believe that all sinners are not of the chosen few of God and are automatically condemned to hell with no possibility of repentence.

As much as Jesus preached love and mercy, why do groups such as the one mentioned turn Christianity as an excuse to hate? I am deeply saddened and offended by these people. I am convinced that they are the reason so many of the lost turn away from God-- they don't know much about Christianity, but they do know that they don't want to be like those people.



From, https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3645&forum=35#24281

I beseech all of you to not fall into the deceptive nature of their preaching and message. They seem to be holy, again, but they are not.

You'll hear them say they leap for joy and whatnot at being largely persecuted in America and that shows they are in God's will. Wrong. Dead wrong.

Be discerning.

1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. (KJV)

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. (KJV)

1Jo 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. (KJV)

1Co 13:4-5 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful. (ESV)


Jordan

 2006/4/18 21:33
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi Ironman, hope you are doing well!

Quote:
if indeed the Lord is using people such as these to call the Church out (hey He used an ass to speak before) then we're really in over our heads.



Brings to mind this also

Quote:
I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.





Peace be with you


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2006/4/18 21:38Profile
ChrisJD
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Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi Jordanamo, how are you?

I certainly can not speak for Ironman. However, what I understand his point to be is not that these people are being used of God to build His Church, or that God approves of them, not at all.

This is tricky, but I hold out the possiblity that God could use groups like this to correct or chasten His people for their lack of obedience in doing what He calls us to do. This does not mean that I think God approves of thier message or the way they deliever it.

This could play out in something like this: The Lord tells us He has something in particular He wants accomplished; either we can do this, as He commands, or He will accomplish this by other means and those means will involve our being corrected for disobedience.

I find something of that principle in this warning

Quote:
But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.



and then...

Quote:
Moreover it shall come to pass, that I shall do unto you, as I thought to do unto them.



I think of this in terms of the group I mentioned before, these so called "Israelites". Their message has alot to do with race and seems to have a potential to stir up racial strife. Could this be the outworking of the failure of the Church to properly address the sins of rascisim and predjudice of the past, and perhaps present?

Back to the first group, could it be that our silence and toleration of sooo many evils in our society has returned to us in the form of such hatred and intolernace dressed up in our own garb?

These of course are speculations.

Peace be with you.


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2006/4/18 22:02Profile
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Joined: 2004/6/15
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 Re:

bro Jordan
i'm not sure if they of God or not but if they are heathen and the Lord is using them to call out some sins or bring to our attention some sins then it says to me that we are in trouble. if the Lord has to use the heathen to tell the Church they are wrong on some issues then we have problems. it says we are unaware or unwilling to do anything to rectify or situation.

as far as predestination goes, that has proven to be a touchy subject. the Lord had me bring it up for discussion in the scriptures and doctrines section (if you feel led to read it) and we wrestled with it. the long and short is the Lord is sovereign in all. we ourselves are beyon dredemption unless the Lord Himself draws us for in John 6 thw word says

[b] For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66 From that time many [/b]

then Paul of t says of how we were chosen from before the foundation of the world...however there is an element of free will but that free will is in the confines of the Lord's sovereignty.

Let us take these things before the Lord and let Him show us what is to keep and what is to dicard. AMEN.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/4/18 22:20Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Back to the first group, could it be that our silence and toleration of sooo many evils in our society has returned to us in the form of such hatred and intolernace dressed up in our own garb?


That is very interesting to consider and I have not looked at it that way. 'Tis something to think on.

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

We need to be praying for this Westboro church. At least I know I will be. It brings me to tears when I see what they are doing.

Pray, pray pray for them, that God would awaken them to THEIR depravity and wrong-doing which they do in the name of the LORD, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob!

Dear God, awaken these people to their wicked ways! Bring them to repentance! Do something Lord!


Jordan

 2006/4/18 22:22
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Chris
indeed the word says that the Lord would use a foolish nation to tprovoke the Jews to Jealousy. what more of us for i know we are not exempt from such or anything else the Lord may decide to use to bring us to the fullness for His glory.

oh and bro Chris you did say what i wanted to say in your last post so you spoke for me :-)

bro Jordan
i agree with you in spirit for the need for repentance on our part. yea and amen.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/4/18 22:24Profile
Combat_Chuck
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Joined: 2006/1/27
Posts: 202


 Re:

This group is certainly, no doubt about it-- un-Christian.

Matt. 5,
20"For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

1 John 2:6,
the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

Matt. 22:36-40,
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

1co 13,
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 8Love never fails.


1 John 4:15,
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him

1 John 4,
7Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.


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Combat Chuck

 2006/4/19 0:42Profile





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